bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?  (Read 21536 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

newgene87

  • Guest
Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« on: February 23, 2013, 03:20:21 AM »

I was having a really good conversation with a friend of mine and she asked a interesting question which i'm wondering too.

"When Jesus was hanging out on the cross and Jesus shouted out. My God My God why hast thou forsaken me? Did God forsake his son in his last moments?"

Good question for me as well. I know that text is from Matthew 27:46 and a quote from Psalm 22. Why did Jesus say those words at that moment? why is that "text" so unique in that it's written that he said it in it's original language? (as if His other words were "spoken" in ENGLISH ;D teehee). With my Observation - Jesus would be saying this IMPLYING that "God DID forsake Him" ....or why say it???  :o. Just a general question. I couldn't find Ray's insight on this verse, i'm definitely seeking his insight and any others. Thanks

Eugene
Logged

Rhys 🕊

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1385
  • 🕊
    • Facebook
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 04:22:07 AM »

From Ray’s emails:

I do not believe that God "turned His back on His only Son."
There are those who teach it, however. Jesus quoted the first few words found
is Psalm 22 which goes on to describe just Who the Messiah was to be and the
purpose for Him being crucified.


Jesus was telling them who the Messiah was. Hey chaps this is your Messiah you just knocked up on this piece of wood.

Lord not my will but Thy will be done.

The perfect sinless sacrifice for the world. How could you beat this sort of love.

Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

I think God must love us or something to do this. How much does He love us? Perhaps more than what we presently know. Jesus already knew the answer to His own question.

Never forsaken in any moment. All God's will.

I ask myself the same thing sometimes and I know I'm not forsaken by God. If I know that I'm pretty sure Jesus did as well.


Rhys
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 07:10:37 PM by Rhys »
Logged
🤫

Ian 155

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 07:13:49 AM »

This seems like he was forsaken but the next verse tells us he bowed his head [humbled himself in the circumstance] and gave up his spirit 'Into Your hands I commit my spirit"  did not hold onto/focus on the trauma taking place,

This is to happen with all we go thru or places he God takes us to, Humble yourself,hand it over to whom it belongs and rest [breath your last]  Take up your cross Daily ....

good news is that we are then risen out of that situation in due time

don't we also scream when things are not working out according to our spec - you dont love me ,you have let me down etc

my 2 cents

Ian

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW HIS STEPS.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 07:17:18 AM by Ian 155 »
Logged

bob

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 10:40:20 AM »

I was taught that as in the account of him taking the scroll of the prophet Isaiah 53 and after reading it in the synagogue, proclaimed this day is this scripture fulfilled, so also he spoke those words so as to fulfill the prophesy in psalm 22. So that all prophesy would be fulfilled. Bob
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 10:56:15 AM »


Hi Eugene,

Think of the situation, Jesus who was a human as any of us are, in that He felt all the pain of what He was going through. He was being crucified, He was in excruciating pain, He was struggling for every breath He took. So what does this perfect man do in His distress and suffering? He cries out to the only being that can help Him...

Mat 27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

He was not saying forsaken as He thought His Father had left Him. He knew the Father would have never turned His back on "His beloved Son," not for a second. This was His death and He knew it very well, and He wanted it to be over... of course He wanted this part to be done, finished. That is what His plea to His Father was about and His Father's answer to this came very quickly thereafter.

Mat 27:50  And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

p.s. as Bob said He did fulfill that prophesy as well, so He spent His last moment taking care of the business He was sent to do.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 11:00:24 AM by Kat »
Logged

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2013, 02:00:45 PM »

Exactly.  Why say it if it weren't true? 

Isaiah 54:8 In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a little while. But with everlasting  love I will have compassion on you," says the LORD, your Redeemer.

It was only for a little while.  I don't know if this verse is any help, but if God the Father was angry, He wasn't angry with Jesus because Jesus didn't do anything deserving of God's wrath.  But I imagine if it is true, God was angered by what He had to witness was happening to His Son.  I don't think He wanted to forsake Him but He had to in order for death to come.  But it was only for a little while. And of course, we all know that He redeemed Jesus from the grave.

My 2 cents.
Logged

newgene87

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2013, 02:10:06 PM »

Exactly.  Why say it if it weren't true? 

Isaiah 54:8 In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a little while. But with everlasting  love I will have compassion on you," says the LORD, your Redeemer.

It was only for a little while.  I don't know if this verse is any help, but if God the Father was angry, He wasn't angry with Jesus because Jesus didn't do anything deserving of God's wrath.  But I imagine if it is true, God was angered by what He had to witness was happening to His Son.  I don't think He wanted to forsake Him but He had to in order for death to come.  But it was only for a little while. And of course, we all know that He redeemed Jesus from the grave.

My 2 cents.

wowww what a verse. even the verse before speaks to me, "For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee" .....thank you " Shorty". I will pray on that. Scripture was fulfilled :D
Logged

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2013, 03:48:56 PM »

Hi folks,
Thanks for the helpful words,
I think it also speaks to the idea that Lord Jesus had to REALLY die!
True it is about the undeserved pain and suffering, but it is also about the FAITH of Jesus.
Not to seem to go to sleep or pretend death in unconsciousness, because he was actually god and could not die, but to really put his trust in the Father, ALL THE WAY!

That of course is the example we are to follow. To put ALL our trust in the hope/fact that we shall be resurrected to LIFE once again, no matter our carnal, human doubts and fears.
Mark 9:23-25

Truly we are most blessed among all people.
Indiana Bob
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 06:52:41 PM »


Here's an email where Ray made a comment on this statement from Jesus on the cross.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2775.0 -------

No, David, neither do I believe that God "turned HIs back on His only Son."
There are those who teach it, however. Jesus quoted the first few words found
is Psalm 22 which goes on to describe just Who the Messiah was to be and the
purpose for Him being crucified.

God be with you,
Ray
Logged

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 07:07:41 PM »

Rhys,

It appears you misquoted Ray: 
From Ray’s emails:

I do believe that God "turned His back on His only Son."
There are those who teach it, however. Jesus quoted the first few words found
is Psalm 22 which goes on to describe just Who the Messiah was to be and the
purpose for Him being crucified.


Jesus was telling them who the Messiah was. Hey chaps this is your Messiah you just knocked up on this piece of wood.

Lord not my will but Thy will be done.

The perfect sinless sacrifice for the world. How could you beat this sort of love.

Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

I think God must love us or something to do this. How much does He love us? Perhaps more than what we presently know. Jesus already knew the answer to His own question.

Never forsaken in any moment. All God's will.

I ask myself the same thing sometimes and I know I'm not forsaken by God. If I know that I'm pretty sure Jesus did as well.


Rhys
Logged

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 07:10:49 PM »

Well, gee, I just don't know what to think now.  I mean, if Jesus and the Father are One, and every thought Jesus had and every word he said came from the Father, why did He say that?

Maybe that's another one of those spurious passages.  I don't really give a care at this point if all it's going to do is tear us down the middle. 

I'm out. :)
Logged

Rhys 🕊

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1385
  • 🕊
    • Facebook
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 07:13:59 PM »

I took out the guy's name and forgot to put not in, my mistake, have changed now, sorry

I had - I do believe that God "turned His back on His only Son." before adding the word "not"

I'm so sorry I made a mistake in the original post as was tired at that time. I mean no disrespect to shorty so I am truly sorry for making you look bad, it was never my intent to do so.

I am also so sorry that I misquoted what Ray said, making it sound like he said something else.

I never saw my mistake before you mentioned it. Sorry and sorry again.

Rhys
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 08:04:21 PM by Rhys »
Logged
🤫

thewatchman

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 09:22:06 PM »

This is all interesting, but in light of Ray's "Enigma of God", how does Jesus forsake himself, except to allow himself to physically die, otherwise the life within him, his spirit could not allow himself to to die.
Logged

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 09:41:55 PM »

Watchman,

The way you phrased what you said makes it look as if Jesus was praying to Himself, ,,,why have You forsaken Me?".  Jesus wasn't praying to Himself, He was praying the words the Father God caused Him to pray to the Father.  Jesus is not His own Father.  Yes, the Father and the Son are one, but think of it like an Orchestra -- there's one company of musicians made up of many members.

(Did you love that Enigma paper?   I did.)

Gina
Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 09:42:19 PM »

Exactly.  Why say it if it weren't true? 

Isaiah 54:8 In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a little while. But with everlasting  love I will have compassion on you," says the LORD, your Redeemer.

It was only for a little while.  I don't know if this verse is any help, but if God the Father was angry, He wasn't angry with Jesus because Jesus didn't do anything deserving of God's wrath.  But I imagine if it is true, God was angered by what He had to witness was happening to His Son.  I don't think He wanted to forsake Him but He had to in order for death to come.  But it was only for a little while. And of course, we all know that He redeemed Jesus from the grave.

My 2 cents.


That verse is referencing Israel, not Christ. Jesus was never forsaken.

John 8:29  The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him
Logged

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 09:59:42 PM »

Okay Marques.
Logged

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2013, 10:07:41 PM »

It's frightening to think that God might have actually forsaken His own Son, Newgene -- well, I don't know about how you feel about that, but that's me.

I just don't know what to think anymore.  I mean, if God caused Jesus to say those words then maybe the obvious answer is He did forsake Him, but I can't argue with what Ray said either because I prefer to think that God the Father didn't forsake Him.

I fear  this is another one of those idols of my heart, where I get so much like, "Oooo I have to be right!"  haha!  And I proceed to walk around for a few weeks - mood ruined.    As embarrassing as that is to admit!

p.s. to Rhys.  I forgive you!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 10:10:14 PM by " Shorty " »
Logged

newgene87

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 10:57:16 PM »

Exactly.  Why say it if it weren't true? 

Isaiah 54:8 In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a little while. But with everlasting  love I will have compassion on you," says the LORD, your Redeemer.

It was only for a little while.  I don't know if this verse is any help, but if God the Father was angry, He wasn't angry with Jesus because Jesus didn't do anything deserving of God's wrath.  But I imagine if it is true, God was angered by what He had to witness was happening to His Son.  I don't think He wanted to forsake Him but He had to in order for death to come.  But it was only for a little while. And of course, we all know that He redeemed Jesus from the grave.

My 2 cents.


That verse is referencing Israel, not Christ. Jesus was never forsaken.

John 8:29  The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son" (Matt 2:15) ="When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son" (Hosea 11:1) ---Now Matthew has some explaining to do....or he doesnt cause he understand a principle....

Just as i said once before, "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind" (Rom 14:5)

Thanks for that Scripture Shorty. We'd be amazed that alot of the Scriptures that even the apostles used to "claim" fulfilled Christ, if we go back and the read the text, everytime it's either referring to Israel or the Leader of the Time (i.e. David, Moses, Joshua..). I believe 'our' Hermeneutics is the problem in every case, cause that's the only way to even see "universal" salvation through Judgment even from the Old Testament viewpoint.

"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures" (Luke 24:44)

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory" (Luke 24:25-26)

Again, thanks Shorty. That Isaiah 54 is just another scripture i never saw before, and using Paul and the Apostle's hermeneutics: there are alot of Scripture that Christ can "open our understanding" on and see it's applies to Christ.

thanks for everyone's viewpoint. thanks alot, i really appreciate it

Eugene
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2013, 11:07:21 PM »


Well I will offer this thought, Jesus was in the last moments of His life, He may have been feeling the very life draining out of Himself. Now all people go through death, but He was God, the very creator of the universe and He was full of LIFE that was leaving Him, certainly there was some anxiety in this very difficult period. I know He knew/understood that His Father did not, could not forsake Him, but maybe it was His actual dying and the LIFE leaving Him that was alarming. It seems He died very soon after He said that.

Mat 27:50  And Jesus cried again with a loud voice, and yielded up his spirit.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

newgene87

  • Guest
Re: Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 11:18:32 PM »


Well I will offer this thought, Jesus was in the last moments of His life, He may have been feeling the very life draining out of Himself. Now all people go through death, but He was God, the very creator of the universe and He was full of LIFE that was leaving Him, certainly there was some anxiety in this very difficult period. I know He knew/understood that His Father did not, could not forsake Him, but maybe it was His actual dying and the LIFE leaving Him that was alarming. It seems He died very soon after He said that.

Mat 27:50  And Jesus cried again with a loud voice, and yielded up his spirit.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Great Thought. Let me put as well, THANK YOU LORD FOR DOING ALL THAT FOR ME! :)

Amazing Love, Amazing Grace

Eugene
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.049 seconds with 22 queries.