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I need an educated teacher
Kat:
Hi Nick,
--- Quote ---I'm still really worried that all this stuff is too good to be true. I admit right now: I'm double-minded as all get-out. I wake up agnostic, scare myself into believing in Hell (because you'll go there if you don't believe in it, don'cha know) and then come here to see... I don't know... if I can just prove to myself it's not there.
--- End quote ---
Hell is a man made doctrine that is suppose to scare you into complying with the rest of the church doctrines.
Now in order to prove the truth of the Scriptures, will require effort on your part, a lot of effort. You have laid out before you here numerous articles that will help you build a solid foundation of understanding, but it will take quite a bit of time for you to study through them and meditate on it all, to let this truth take root. What it takes is pray, study, meditation and more pray. It's a process and there are no short cuts.
So if you really want to have understanding, then get away from the confusion of Babylon and start studying :)
Mat 13:44 The kingdom of heaven (truth, love and joy and all the fruits of the Spirit) is like unto a treasure hidden in the field; which a man found (it takes a lot of digging and work to get to it), and hid (in his heart); and in his joy he goeth and selleth all that he hath (because all the physical things in life are of no value to him any more), and buyeth that field (because he wants it and never wants to loose it).
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Nickreading1984:
Thanks, guys. but, about the fear thing. Phil 2:12 says that believers should work out their salvation with fear and trembling. I know perfect love drives out all fear, but Ecc 12:13 still COMMMANDS to fear God and keep his commandments.
I can't help but think I'm talking to a bunch of vipers, of whom it can be said that there is no fear of God before their eyes (romans 3:18)
I'm pretty sure God still wants us to fear him and I don't see how you can without believing in Eternal Hellfire
-Nick
Craig:
--- Quote ---I can't help but think I'm talking to a bunch of vipers, of whom it can be said that there is no fear of God before their eyes (romans 3:18)
--- End quote ---
Fear of God is an Old Testament expression for Respect and Reverence for God. And is said to be the very beginning of knowledge Proverbs 1:7 and Job 28:28.
People without God are spiritually dead and produce bad fruit on a path of destruction.
Nick you are pulling one scripture out of the whole book and basing doctrine on it. You need an understanding of all scripture and 2 or 3 witnesses to any one particular scripture to claim it as a truth. You also must study the meaning of the words in scripture. This is not a simple, or easy process as there is 2-3 thousand years between what was written and what was finally translated. If you really believe God is going to burn you and your loved ones in hellfire for eternity then go for it. I've been where you are and it is not a fun place, and goes against the good news that Jesus talked about. Nowhere in scripture do I read you must believe in hellfire to be saved, but maybe you do.
Craig
onelovedread:
[Ray Replies]
Dear Michael:
You ask: "Why would GOD force a person, that by his own will and lifestyle chose to live apart from GOD, to live with GOD for Eternity? Would that be Heaven for that individual?"
ANSWER: Your question ASSUMES things that aren't Biblically true. Did you ever live a lifestyle APART from God? Do you now live a lifestyle WITH God? How did that transition come about? Did you ALL ON YOUR OWN, one day come to decide that you wanted to live WITH God as opposed to APART from God? Did you make that choice, without a cause, and INDEPENDENTLY of God's supernatural intervention? I don't have to ask, because I already know the answer, and the answer will be the same for all non-believers in the future.
Paul tells us that "NOT ONE is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11).
No one seeks God until God calls them to begin seeking. Jesus Christ plain stated that
"NO ONE CAN come to Me if ever the Father Who sends Me should not be DRAWING HIM" (John 6:44 & 65)
I fully realize that most of Christendom including such greats as Billy Graham absolutely DENY this Scripture, but it is true nonetheless. It stands to reason if only those who are called and chosen (by the way, only Jesus does the choosing also:
"NOT YOU choose Me, but I CHOOSE YOU..." John 15:16)
can only be such when God chooses, then those who are NOT CHOSEN OR CALLED of God CANNOT of their own will come to God, choose God, or decide to live a lifestyle WITH God and opposed to APART from God. There is the Scriptural answer to your questions.
God only chooses SOME now--not all. But it is His will to call and choose ALL MANKIND in the future.
"God WILLS that ALL mankind be SAVED..." (I Tim. 2:4).
And "Thy WILL BE DONE..." (Matt. 6:10).
For God IS LOVE (I John 4:8), and
"LOVE NEVER FAILS...." (I Cor. 13:10).
So part of the problem is that your question contains errors of though. God doesn't FORCE people to worship Him, He opens up their minds and hearts so that they DESIRE TO WORSHIP HIM!
Again, Paul was inspired of God to write:
"Wherefore, also, God highly exalts Him, and graces Him with the name that is above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial [those in the heavens] and terrestrial [those on the earth] and subterranean [all the billions who will be resurrected from the dead and be judged at the white throne and purged by God who is a consuming FIRE, Rev. 20:11-15],and every tongue should be ACCLAIMING [this is a heart-felt voluntary acclamation] that Jesus Christ IS LORD [And NO ONE IS ABLE TO SAY 'LORD IS JESUS' EXCEPT BY HOLY SPIRIT!!], to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:9-11).
God desires, WILLS, and is quite capable of saving ALL OF HIS CREATURES. It is UNSCRIPTURAL to suggest that God won't save all: It is BLASPHEMY to suggest that He can't save all!
I hope this helps your understanding a little. Most Christians look at the NOW, the HERE, the PAST and PRESENT in deciding who GOT saved and who is GETTING saved. They fail utterly to look to the FUTURE when God sets His hand to save ALL.
Remember that thing about Passover, then the "waveshief"--Christ, then Pentecost, the "firstfruits," those who God is now calling of the nations? Did we forget THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES AND THE LAST GREAT DAY OF THE FEAST? The GREAT FALL HARVEST OF SOULS?
God be with you as you submit to His calling and His will.
Sincerely,
Ray
arion:
--- Quote from: Nickreading1984 on March 01, 2013, 08:47:18 AM ---I'm pretty sure God still wants us to fear him and I don't see how you can without believing in Eternal Hellfire
-Nick
--- End quote ---
Nick,
What is your Father like. If he is/was a harsh and evil man I suppose it's understandable that you might think that God is the same. If you have a good father ask yourself if your dad wants you to be afraid of him or if your old enough to be a father yourself would you want your son to be afraid of you? And would you want your son to respect and obey you only because he felt you were going to take a belt to him and whip him unmercifully? If not, then how could you think a perfect and loving God (Who states in his written word that 'God is love' and 'Love never fails') would want you to obey and worship him because your terrified to death of him? See what this 'hell' teaching of the church has done to you?
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