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Free Will
ned:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on August 03, 2006, 10:59:55 PM ---"We have limitations all around us in our lives, we can make a choice within the confines of our circumstances (who determines our circumstances?) but we do not have nearly enough power to defeat the laws of physics or gravity by our "free will" nor do we have the power to do anything outside the bounds which He has placed us in.
--- End quote ---
Hi Joe,
Well put. It brought to mind:
Act 17:24-26 "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed , and the bounds of their habitation.."
It's not for all to see. I praise God that he has shown us....His will is much better than my "free"-will!
Marie
hillsbororiver:
Marie,
A big Amen! To your post.
It is amazing once our eyes have been opened to this to see how elementary it really is. Where is it written where man has this power that is reserved for God the Father only? Even our Lord did not and does not have "free will."
The point is that there are no examples in the physical world of any free will by either animate or inanimate objects, all of creation is bound by laws, both biologically and/or by the laws of physics (who is the Author of these laws?), compounding that are the unique circumstances (who sets up these "circumstances") in each and every one of our lives.
Yes, we can make choices within certain parameters but we have about as much "free will" as a ball of clay in a potter's hands.
Joe
gmik:
Good Stuff everyone. love it.
Now, I believe all this, and study it, but, like the other night trying to explain it to a friend--well I just get all tongue tied and can't remember the scripture etc etc....They get stuck on the Choose this day....my friend didn't get argumentative but I did remember Ray's article on witnessing and I sort of backed off...
Sorry to get off topic....but the more I learn about mythical "free will" the better.
Thanks all.
joeshrink:
--- Quote ---Hey Jeremy,
Thanks for the scripture- I looked it up and looked at the conext from which you quote and once again it does not seem to have anything to do with pre-determination. If anything the flavor of the context seems to say that salvation is through righteousness - because those who do not have the spirit are not sons of God and the path to gaining life is by putimg to death the misdeeds of the body. See Romans chptr 8: 1-17
I have a problem with quoting scripture one verse at a time. If I remember my Bible history class correctly dividing scripture into verse and chapter is a relatively new phenomenon- and the verse and chapter divisions are under continual scrutiny by most theologians and is believed by many to convolute the original intention of the author. Another issue I have about single verse quotation is that in that format we can really make scripture say whatever we want it to.
That being said I can see your logic- In a way the process of our salvation began with God's promise to Abraham- a man God apparently chose- and has had a ripple effect from there to here.
I wonder if in our efforts to simplify we have not made things more complex- could it be that both freewill and predetermination are at work in the same system and they perhaps are not as paradoxical as we think?
Blessings and Realness!!!
--- End quote ---
Hey guys- I think I got a bit off topic in the spiritual body seperate from flesh discussion- so I am pasting my last responce here... still getting the hang of this forum :)
Now I really have to get off here as I have a paper to write on the 'problem of evil' grrrrrr >:(
MG:
Hi joeshrink
I know I've put about 10 years into studying free will so when I post a scripture out of context I'm doing it with the understanding that others already believe the same as I do. If there are scriptures posted in areas I'm still struggling with then I will continue to ask God and do my own research until he gives me a clear understanding.
My thought is that you would have to post the entire bible to keep everything in context, but I would encourage anyone reading to read it and study and seek God's wisdom.
--- Quote ---could it be that both freewill and predetermination are at work in the same system and they perhaps are not as paradoxical as we think?
--- End quote ---
No
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