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Author Topic: what did Christ die for ?  (Read 16660 times)

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Rex8

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2013, 05:01:47 PM »

.....  does anyone has scripture that tells Jesus died so we can have his seed to be spread through humanity, Jesus died so God can show us how much He loves us. could be wrong but i dint think so. Jesus was the Lame to be sacerficed to pay the penalty for mankind sins. the payment for sin is death. our carnal spirit could never be one WI the Holy Spirit spirit. the many that are called would never understand Scripture, therefore some humans  would never become the few. sorry got carried away. sin is why Jesus died. we would never know The Lord God if the payment was paid.  i could b wrong. Wouldn't b the first or the last time I'm wrong

....this a direct quote from Ray

"... God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US!  He did not have to die.  He said, I will do it to show them."

You decide which is correct.

Matt 16:21 “From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.”

Luke 24:6-8 "He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, "saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'"And they remembered His words.

John 11:49-51 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, "nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish." Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation”

Galatians3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He said not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of ONE, And to your SEED which is CHRIST

John1:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Luke 8:11Now the parable is this: The SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD

John12:24Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it stays alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 07:21:40 PM »

I hope you don't see those things as mutually exclusive.  To say something 'must happen' does not explain the reason it 'must happen'.  The reason it must happen is to demonstrate His love for us.

We've wandered away from the OP, and have tried to explain the assumptions raised in her question.  Is there anything to add to that?
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rex8

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 07:56:40 PM »

 yes...I did agree Yahshua did die for all  because he Loves us  however he did not die  "for no other reason" or "he did not have to die" is not The Truth and nothing but The Truth,...Yahshua died for what he said in John 24...because Yahshua is the Seed that MUST die to produce much fruit.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 08:37:40 PM »

1Jn 3:16 (CLV) By this we know love, seeing that He, for our sakes, lays down His soul. We also ought to lay down our souls for the sake of the brethren.

Doesn't that pull it together (and also help with the OP?)?

All I can add is that I see no contradiction.  If you do, I'm at a loss.  Ray isn't here to take 'disagreement' to personally, or for comment or clarification, as we required in the past.  And I'm not smart enough to completely explain why I can believe both the 'must' and the 'underlying reason' (as well as the result) of His death...Love. 

Maybe others are.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

eagle

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 10:09:17 PM »

Quote
Maybe others are.

I believe I am  :)

Could it be that Jesus is not talking about himself, when he says:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Could it be, that it´s a parable about the called and the chosen :)

"Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone"
( the called)
"but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit" (the chosen/elect)

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ICXCNIKA

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2013, 02:16:35 AM »



....this a direct quote from Ray

"... God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US!  He did not have to die.  He said, I will do it to show them."

I see nothing flawed with what Ray said, or why he said it.
There's a lot involved with "showing us that HE LOVES US!" HE (CHRIST) absolutely did not have to suffer and die for us, nor for that matter did HE have to create us in the first place! Everything HE has done, is doing, and will do, is HIM showing us that he LOVES us. Every nuance, period!  Dave is correct when he states: "I hope you don't see those things as mutually exclusive."   We must always remember that the TRUTH is in the sum.


I believe we are admonished to keep this in mind: "Do everything in love." (1 Corinthians 16:14) This reflects the very motives of our Lord and Savior, HE is our example. "In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as He is, we -- we also are in this world;" (1 john 4:17- emphasis mine)
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Barbara B

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2013, 08:58:34 AM »

Our Father’s plan was to make a physical creation.  Why, I don’t know but I like to think it was much like we wish to have children.  We know when we bear offspring they are coming into a world of pain and suffering yet we also know, they are coming into a realm of many wonders, joy and love.  Could God have created us like the angels?  Of course, He could have.  However, the angels have never known the glory of the physical realm!  We seem to forget that most of the time.
 
Physical things are not immortal and eventually must die so, of course, God made a provision to ‘rescue’ His children from that fate.  In doing so, He provided someone physically JUST LIKE US to not only let us know that darkness of the grave is NOT the end of our existence but the beginning of a much greater existence – a realm we don’t (and can’t) really understand.  That physical man showed us just a portion of that realm by laying down His physical life and by being rescued from that grave.  Why?  So that we may have just an inkling of HIS love for us.  Can we perfectly understand 'greater love has no man but to give his life....'?   I like to think I can but I don't!

By dying, He produced ‘much fruit’.  By living, He ‘fertilized’ the field by walking among us, giving a PERFECT example of how we should live.  In my mind, this was possibly more difficult through the years for Jesus than the horrible death on the cross.  But His example was that we could be IN the world but not be OF the world, learning that physical/mental, etc. suffering is designed to bring us to humility (as the ‘Preacher’ tells us in Ecc), awe and wonder.  But only through HIS grace and love, by walking in Him, loving our fellow man, showing HIM to others and ‘laying down’ our carnal lives to the service of others can we possibly come to TRUE humility.  Only through HIS grace can we begin to truly understand that without HIM not only is the grave our ultimate destiny, but the physical life is so empty and tiresome.  How can one wake up every morning to see the sunrise and hear a bird sing be unable to SEE His glory and not be brought to their knees in thankfulness for the PHYSICAL creation He gave us?   

By knowing my King, I know that my loving Father has provided a way that this old, rotting physical being will someday be like HIM!  How wondrous is that?  He not only gave me my physical life and the wonders of it, but He begin to open my eyes for me to begin to understand that living that life differently than the world is even more wondrous than I could imagine along with the hope of being with Him beyond the grave in a realm I really don't even understand.  What one of us wouldn’t do the same for our children if we could? 
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Joel

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2013, 11:58:37 PM »

Paul makes it pretty clear in the letter to the Romans as to why Christ died that even I can understand it.
(KJV) Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

(TLB) He died for our sins and rose again to make us right with God, filling us with God's goodness.

(TAB) Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification - our acquittal, and to make our account balance, absolving us from all guilt before God.

Joel
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Rito1980

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2013, 01:41:43 AM »

suposedly Jesus died so we wouldnt end up in hell..even thou there is no hell.
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dean kevin heyes

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2013, 09:04:09 AM »

 EZ2U  Your answer ROMANS 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of GOD is eternal life through JESUS CHRIST our LORD. We have all sinned, and as we know sin = death , we needed a substitute for a better word so what better gift can GOD give man but a savior JESUS CHRIST !!!! WE are saved by death, but death haveing no power over our LORD as HE had not sinned was destroyed, and as our spirits belong to GOD so shall they live, as for your soul, which is you, it will either have parts added or parts taken away from it in the lake of refining fire according to HIS WORD in the Bible . If you are one of the chosen, you will go through this process here on earth, and therefor, the second death has no hold on you as all men must die once. This is what the Bible says and L.Ray did teach  :D     
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darren

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2013, 07:12:42 AM »

 Paul"s letter to the Romans. Paul states it very clearly. Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences (sins) and was raised again for our (humans) justification. Absolving us from ALL guilt before God. Jesus died for our sins. Now if people want to say He died so God can show us how much He loves us, or this reason and that reason, believe what u will. Everything Jesus taught us and showed us was with love. God is love I and My Father are One. I dont believe Jesuse came here on this earth and go through the Roman;s brutal beatens, torture, humiliation,spat upon ridiculed,striped necked and pain that we have no concept of then nailed to a tree and hung there until death to show us how much He loves us.  Jesus shows us through His teachings His miracle healings, the way He lived everyday of His life. His day to day life is an example of just how much He loves us. He did not have to die to show me how much He loves me. He did have to be the perfect pure lame to die in order to pay the price of my sins so i can have a personal relationship with Him and His Father. That i my be saved in the end.
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darren

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2013, 06:21:36 AM »

What say the Scriptures?

Jesus said,

"Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends." John 15:13 J.F.K. how does this scripture say this  is why Jesus died for mankind? We do however have Paul's letter to the Romans,  Romans 4:25 tells us exactly why Jesus died for mankind.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2013, 02:37:58 PM »

Why are we looking at fingers and calling them hands? 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Avidfisher

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2013, 02:49:22 AM »

I think mankind knows evil pretty good, and what were ro learn more so is goodness, but why call me good, for there is only one that is good and that is God.
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gerard_dsouza

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2013, 02:30:41 PM »

Hi Dennis,
You mentioned that even animals have a spirit as that gives life. What happens to that spirit, does it go to God or dies?
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dodrill

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2013, 04:44:44 PM »

Jesus is the grain of wheat - unless the grain dies it remains alone

First the natural then the spiritual - He died so He would not be alone and also to bring much fruit (us all :)

John 12:24

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 04:57:13 PM by hayley »
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darren

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2013, 03:53:10 AM »

I see many,many posts by many people. many agree that Jesus died in order to show how much He loved and loves us. Please show me 1,2scripture that states this is whyJesus died for mankind. one of the most commom is John 15;13. I read this scripture many times and i do not see where this scripture states that this is why Jesus died for mankind. Scripture states that 15:12 This is My commandment , that you love one and other as I have loved you. 15:13 greater love has no one like this, than to lay down ones life for his friends.  This commandment does not say or states this is why Jesus died for mankind. However it surely tels us Jesus loves us and what a beautifull commandment.
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Kat

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2013, 09:52:23 AM »


Hi Darren, surely you did not forget about John 3:16  ;)

John 3:16  For God so loved (loves) the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
v. 17  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

1John 4:9  In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him
v. 10  In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Rom 5:8  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Eph 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved (loves) us,
v. 5  even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

2Co 5:14  For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2Co 5:14  Whatever we do, it is because Christ's love controls us. Since we believe that Christ died for everyone, we also believe that we have all died to the old life we used to live. (NLT)

Rom 8:32  He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33  Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34  Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36  As it is written:
       "For Your sake we are killed all day long;
       We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37  Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved (loves) us.

Mercy, peace and love
Kat
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microlink

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Re: what did Christ die for ?
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2013, 11:43:54 AM »

Very thoughtful response from Dennis V. Thanks.
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