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[santgem]

The question is:

Is there already a law that makes eve to sin before she did eat the fruit?
What makes eve to sin before she did eat the fruit?

  ~Santgem

Not to harp on you, Santgem.  I'm actually glad you're here because you brought up some great, great questions and I found new answers I never thought possible.  But you asked, is there already a law that makes Eve to sin before she did eat the fruit.  And the answer is in Romans 8:2:  the LAW of sin and death, which Jesus came to free us from through the LAW of the Spirit.

God bless everyone.   Just working things out.  (And maybe I was a little bored.  But Ray nailed it -- God saves us from boredom. Praise God! )

Thanks and no thanks shortly for acknowledging me..
Actually when you read Genesis;


And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28

God already instructing them to subdue and have dominion to all livings thing that moveth upon the earth. Meaning all upon the earth.

But, the problem is, Eve allows Satan to have a dominion over her, is that not a sin?


This verse translation from NLT is pretty good for me....
Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break. Romans 5:13

[Gina]

Santgem, Eve "allowed" no such thing!  She was deceived and tricked!  But hey, I can't make you believe the word of God.

But in saying all that you've said, you admit and agree that sin was in the world before the law and they sinned before eating the fruit.  So, that's good.  We're on the same page.  FINALLY!  But those sins WERE NOT CHARGED TO THEIR ACCOUNT because the law re coveting/lust had not yet been given.

(It's like talking to a brick wall.)

[Kat]

The question is:

Is there already a law that makes eve to sin before she did eat the fruit?
What makes eve to sin before she did eat the fruit?

Rom 7:25  I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
    So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Adam and Eve were made of carnal flesh from the beginning, like all human being are, we are too weak to resist sin, period. When Satan presented this temptation to Eve she succumbed to it and fail for it hook, line and sinker and Adam with her... as we all do.


http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm ----------

THE NATURAL MIND OF MAN HATES GOD AND LOVES SIN

When the Scriptures speak of the "carnal mind" of man or "the flesh" of man, it is speaking of his spiritual condition and attitude, until God converts such a person through a spiritual process of repentance.

We have many statements which confirm the weak and sinful condition of the human heart. Here are but a few:

1. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:23)
 
2. "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, "Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Gal. 5:19-21)

3. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked : who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)

4. "Because the carnal mind is enmity [hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7)
 
5. "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good no NOT ONE" (Rom.3:9-12)

6. "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" (Isaiah 64:6)
 

7. "For God hath concluded them all [both the Jews & Gentiles -- that's all humanity] in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all" (Rom. 11:32)

Notice that God will need to "have mercy upon all" because "all have sinned." God made the human race, and He made them spiritually weak, and as such are not able to obey the spiritual laws of God. Eve failed her first test. God told them what they could and could not eat. Eve immediately gave in to her "lust of flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life" when Satan presented her the opportunity. This weak spiritual mind and heart of Eve did not develop over a life-time of sinning, but was with her from her beginning.
------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Kenneth Clark]

nice

[santgem]

Santgem, Eve "allowed" no such thing!  She was deceived and tricked!  But hey, I can't make you believe the word of God.

I know that she was deceived and tricked that is why she ate the fruit. What i mean is that it is not herself to allow the situations. Eve submitted herself to be deceived by satan, whereas God told them to subdued and to have dominion to all living things including satan.
Now satan have a dominion over them because they ate the fruit and they submitted themselves to be controlled by satan.
God told them to have a dominion to all including satan, and if ever Eve not to hear satan then she still follow God on the instruction to have a dominion to all, are you still following?

At that time when eve submitted to satan to eat the fruit will she not sin in submission to satan?
for the puzzle;

1.  No, she did not sin before eating the fruit, no laws still violated.
2.  Yes, she did sin because God instructed  to have all dominion to all things but submitted
     instead to satan to have dominion over her that is why she sinned.
3.   None of the above

But in saying all that you've said, you admit and agree that sin was in the world before the law and they sinned before eating the fruit.  So, that's good.  We're on the same page.  FINALLY!  But those sins WERE NOT CHARGED TO THEIR ACCOUNT because the law re coveting/lust had not yet been given. Agreed

(It's like talking to a brick wall.)

[Gina]

I love Ray.  He really makes you use your head.  Ray is speaking to "a minor" in that email - a babe in Christ and therefore giving him the "milk" of the word.  You don't give meat to a minor -- they will choke.  Meat is for the mature.

From a relative standpoint, it certainly appears as if Eve "allowed" Satan to have dominion over her. 

One is the "relative" the other is the "absolute." One is from man's point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God's point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature.

. . .

Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man's point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God's absolute declarations. They won't admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the "relative" at the expense of rejecting the "absolute."

( http://bible-truths.com/part4.htm )



Eve did not KNOW that she was being deceived.  Ray said something to effect "Oh yeah, Satan, I'm totally deceived now!" as if to acnkowledge that there is no way she could have made any other possible choice but to "ALLOW" Satan to have dominion over her.  So tell me how she could have allowed Satan to have dominion over her with her weak heart that God fashioned for her and being made subject to vanity, not willingly but by reason of Him Who SUBJECT THE SAME in hope (Rom. 8:20)

See, I get a little fired up because it's so ridiculous to say on the one hand we have no free will and no free moral agency and then on the other emphatically state, Eve "allowed" this.

Since God locks all up to disobedience (Rom 11:32), tell me how she "allowed" Satan to have dominion over her?  She put Satan in the garden?  She made him more subtle than any beast?  She caused him to put her eyes on the tree?  She "allowed" all of that?  Well is she God that she could have caused things to happen differently?

( bible-truths.com/email2.htm ):  Mar 20, 2002 – .BUT, NO ONE EVER goes against God's "INTENTION." There is a giant difference.

[santgem]

Santgem, Eve "allowed" no such thing!  She was deceived and tricked!  But hey, I can't make you believe the word of God.

I know that she was deceived and tricked that is why she ate the fruit. What i mean is that it is not herself to allow the situations. Eve submitted herself to be deceived by satan, whereas God told them to subdued and to have dominion to all living things including satan.
Now satan have a dominion over them because they ate the fruit and they submitted themselves to be controlled by satan.
God told them to have a dominion to all including satan, and if ever Eve not to hear satan then she still follow God on the instruction to have a dominion to all, are you still following?

At that time when eve submitted to satan to eat the fruit will she not sin in submission to satan?
for the puzzle;

1.  No, she did not sin before eating the fruit, no laws still violated.
2.  Yes, she did sin because God instructed  to have all dominion to all things but submitted
     instead to satan to have dominion over her that is why she sinned.
3.   None of the above

But in saying all that you've said, you admit and agree that sin was in the world before the law and they sinned before eating the fruit.  So, that's good.  We're on the same page.  FINALLY!  But those sins WERE NOT CHARGED TO THEIR ACCOUNT because the law re coveting/lust had not yet been given. Agreed

(It's like talking to a brick wall.)

This is what i'm looking for; Thanks for pulling out Ray's view


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7232.0.html


COMMENT:  No, that was NOT, "the first laws" or commandments. The first commandments of God to the man and the woman were:

    Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them,  [1] Be fruitful, and [2] multiply, and [3] replenish the earth, and [4] subdue it: and [5] have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    There are five commandments alone that came before not eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Now then, one of the categories of animals that "move upon the earth" is "serpents."  They were specifically COMMANDED to "have DOMINION OVER....serpents..." Eve allowed the sepent to have dominion over HER.   She BROKE the commandment of God and SINNED.