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Will we ever see Our Heavenly Father
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: santgem on April 13, 2013, 02:03:43 AM ---But the question is;
Where is the Father when Jesus is Yahweh?
--- End quote ---
Act 17:22-31 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, "Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, 'TO THE UNKNOWN GOD'. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Joh 4:19-24 The woman is saying to Him, "Lord, I behold that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worship in this mountain, and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where one must worship."
Jesus is saying to her, "Believe Me, woman, that, coming is an hour when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem shall you be worshiping the Father. You are worshiping that of which you are not aware; we are worshiping that of which we are aware, for salvation is of the Jews. But coming is the hour, and now is, when the true worshipers will be worshiping the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also is seeking such to be worshiping Him."
"God is spirit, and those who are worshiping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth."
The Father is Spirit. In Him we live and move and have our being (are). He was Spirit when Yahweh (aka Jesus) was in the desert with Moses, and they lived and moved and had their being in Him.
theophilus:
--- Quote from: Kat on April 05, 2013, 05:00:42 PM ---
This God who became the Father of Jesus Christ, always existed.
--- End quote ---
Hello Kat, I was following your train of thought until I stomped on the above statement. I think that as soon as you use a time-related word, you bring in TIME into the equation. In this case, you used the word ALWAYS. "This God ... ALWAYS existed"; even though, you state that God isn't constrained by time but is beyond it. I suspect you are using ALWAYS to try to explain God's attribute of having no beginning nor end.
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--- Quote from: Kat on April 05, 2013, 05:00:42 PM ---If you want to come up with an analogy of where God is in His own realm, as far as time goes. The closest physical analogy you could come up with is a circle. Not starting back there and going this way, that way is the past and this way is the future.
Now if the realm of eternity is as a circle, can somebody point to where eternity begins on a circle? Can anyone show me, on this circle, where eternity ends? You can’t, can you.
Now I’ll give you another little mind boggler, not only can you not show me where it begins or where it ends, I’m telling you it has no beginning and it has no end. It doesn’t move in a circle, it is a circle. Therefore time has nothing to do with eternity.
Even your dictionaries most of them, not all, say eternity is an endless period. Eternity has nothing to do with time, time starts here and goes to there.
Eternity is like a circle, you can’t find the beginning and you can’t find the end. Because it has no beginning and it has no end. Therefore in that sense a circle is ultimate truth. So God knows there can never be any thing more perfect than He is. That’s where He introduces Himself to us. We are introduced to a being who is perfect.
--- End quote ---
"If you want to come up with an analogy of where God is in His own realm" To speak of a realm of God implies that God inhabits this realm--it's His abode. It kinda sounds like a location, a place. If God is eternal, then the realm or place He inhabits must also be eternal. I don't think this is true.
In the circle analogy, you are dealing with an already drawn circle. But suppose the circle hasn't been drawn. You start drawing it at one point (x,y)from the center, and you go around 360 degrees till you draw a complete circle. You started at point x,y and ended at the same point x,y. We can always keep track of this original point and say that this is the beginning of eternity. We could go round and round the circle after that original point and never reach the "end". I may not show you where eternity ends, but I can show you where eternity began, using this analogy. It began at point (x,y).
I understand that to illustrate God's being eternal, your analogy to work must be an ALREADY-DRAWN CIRCLE.
"Time has nothing to do with eternity" I agree with this statement. I would also say that space or location has nothing to do with eternity. So, eternity is a concept we use to try to grasp the apparent fact that eternity, God's state of being, is timeless and spaceless.
--- Quote from: Kat on April 05, 2013, 05:00:42 PM ---mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Roger
Rito1980:
The trinity originated with Babylon paganism, and was passed on to most of the world's religions. The early Christian church worshiped one God and believed in a separate Son. It wasn't until the Council of Nicea (in 325AD) when they decided that "Jesus Christ is God", and then the Council of Constantinople (in 381AD) decided that the "Holy Spirit is God". Then it was the Council of Chalcedon (in 451AD) decided that "Jesus Christ is both man and God."
"BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS I AM"
JOHN 8:58
One of the more credible, at least on the surface, arguments made by well meaning Trinitarians is the use of Jesus' words in verse 58 of the 8th chapter of John. In this conversation with the Pharisees, the Lord was rebuking them for not knowing who he really was. He informed them that their father Abraham rejoiced to see his day and he saw it and he was glad. (John 8:57) In doubting him, the Jewish leader responded, "you are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Following this in verse 58 Jesus said "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was I am."
Many Christians have been decieved by latter day translatiors who dishonestly place the words "I am" in capitol letters. Included in these are, The New King James Version, The Amplified Bible, and The New Living Translation. This is done in an attempt to make it appear that Jesus was quoting here from Exodus 3:14 when God appeared to Moses at the burning bush. It is here where God says "I AM who I AM."
Consider the words in the previous verses, "If I honor myself my honor is nothing. It is my Father who honors me, of whom you say that he is your God." verse 54. It is our contention that Jesus in his pre-human existence acted as the one carrying out Jehovah's wishes. He was representing Jehovah, as his messenger before mankind. What Jesus told the Pharisees was that he knew God, his Father, personally, and that he was present in Abraham's time acting upon the will of his Father.
--- Quote from: santgem on April 13, 2013, 02:03:43 AM ---But the question is;
Where is the Father when Jesus is Yahweh?
--- End quote ---
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote ---Re: Will we ever see Our Heavenly Father
--- End quote ---
Our "Heavenly Father" is not an object.
Any object you can see, can not be God.
God is not any thing seen or observable.
God is not a person ~ L Ray Smith
No person can see God who is not a person. The person, has to dissolve completely, surrender absolutely, for that which is not a person, to be made spiritually discernible.
Spiritual discernment doesn't rely on physical sight.
Arc
Kat:
Hi Rodger,
Thanks for the comments. Yes I realize when trying to explain the unexplainable would not be nearly exact and would run into problems ;) The concepts that a person comes up with are generated from our knowledge of a physical existence and therefore lacking... but if it was explained in proper terms could we even understand it ;D
But I do believe our discussions helps our understanding, with the differences in our knowledge and perspective each brings and that's a good thing.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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