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[mharrell08]

Excerpt from ' Is Jesus God' March 2011 bible study:

How do we know all these references are not speaking about God the Father though? How do we know that? Because Jesus Christ said, nobody had ever seen or heard Him. So either that statement is true or it’s not.

Now I know some theologians argue that where He said that, there was other ways, He was just talking… no, we just blew that out of the sky. It isn’t that this is just said in one place, this is mentioned at numerous times.

I’m not suggesting that there are two Gods, I’m saying that the one God said, “let Us,” that's all that I am saying. I’m not saying that there is more than one God. We have all kinds of examples of how that is possible.

I think we should do away or should have done away… well it’s pretty hard to do it now... but we should have never got in the habit of translating in English Yahweh and Elohim and Adonia, we should have never translated it God. God is a pagan heathen title. Why should we call the God of creation after some pagan title? Why should we? After all we know He’s not a pagan god, yet we’re strapped with the idea that the word Elohim is translated the true God and the god of the pagans. God of creation that was Elohim and Mohoc of the Canaanites that was elohim too.

I would have made a distinction. I would have translated it something like this, since we know what God is from other Scriptures and so on. I would have translated it something like this, in the beginning the Almighty Family created the heavens and the earth. What’s wrong with that? To me that’s what God is. Takes care of the ‘one,’ family, takes care of the plural, family has more than one unit.

Or we could say, the Almighty Divine Family, saying let Us make man in Our image. You could throw the word divine or divinity in there, that okay that’s a good word. It takes care of the plurality of the word Elohim. We could call Him the Almighty Divine Family. What’s wrong with that?

To me the pagan title god or in Germany gott, it doesn’t do justice to the God of creation. 

We are familiar with lots of words anyway that are used with a singular pronouns and so on, but consist of multiple units. We speak of the United States of America, United States, plural. One nation under God or it used to be one nation, I don’t know what it is now. One nation, united, states plural. One nation, okay. This isn’t rocket science, it’s not hard to understand.

You can have an orchestra, one orchestra, 150 members. It doesn’t mean since you have more than one you have more than one orchestras? The accusation is, ‘if there is more than one talking then you are saying there is more than one God.’ No I’m not and neither is the Scripture saying that.

So Jesus Christ has come to reveal His Father, which apparently we don’t know much about. Because we don’t read about any conversations with Him to learn about His personality and so on.

[John from Kentucky]

But the question is;

Where is the Father when Jesus is Yahweh?

Let Jesus answer the question..."I and Father are one." John 10:30  But people don't believe Jesus or His Scriptures.  They think Jesus was confused.  They have to explain away His words.

The apostle Phillip asked Jesus to show them the Father.  Jesus said that if you saw Jesus then you saw the Father.  How is that?  Because Jesus and the Father are one.

Jesus "is the image of the invisible God."  Col 1:15  The Father is invisible Spirit; Jesus is the visible image of God in bodily form.  They are not two persons or two Gods.  God is One.  Jesus is one aspect of God.

That was what Ray tried to get across in his creed when he stated Jesus was God's Authorized Autobiography.  An autobiography is when you write about yourself not another.  But Ray's statement went over most people's heads.

Hello there! So, because "I [Jesus] and the Father are one", when Jesus died on the cross, God Himself passed away, gave up the ghost, right? Since Jesus and the Father are ONE, what affects Jesus affects the Father as well. So, who resurrected Jesus given the fact that the Father had died? If the Father didn't really die, then death is not really death--except maybe when applied to men only.

I need an aspirin people!!!!

I'm going to bed now. I work nights. I pray that God will help me understand this conundrum. I do believe Jesus is God in the O.T.

Hi Theo,

Maybe this will help.

In chapter 18 Of Genesis, Jehovah/Yahweh/Jesus appeared to Abraham on the Plains of Mamre, and visited with him under an oak tree.

The Hebrew indicates this was actually Jehovah, in visible form.  I'll refer to Him as Jesus.  Jesus had His feet washed.  Jesus ate a meal with Abraham.  We are even told the menu: Beef, bread, and some type of milk/cheese dish.  They all ate and were refreshed.

This brings to mind when Jesus met with the Apostles after His Resurrection.  Jesus appeared in physical, visible form.  The Apostles touched Him.  And to prove He wasn't some kind of spook, Jesus ate a piece of broiled fish and a honeycomb.

Now when the visible God physically met with Abraham, that didn't mean the invisible God did not also exist.  God as invisible Spirit still permeated all things in the universe and beyond, since the Scripture says that even the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him.

The Hebrew Scriptures teach that God can be seen and be manifested to humanity while at the same time being invisible Spirit that is everywhere.  They did not have any false idea that there were two Gods.  The Hebrew Scriptures teach explicitly that God is One.

To put it in plain English, God can chew gum and skip a rope at the same time.

When Jesus had emptied Himself, became flesh, and as a human man was put to death; that did not mean that the invisible God died.  Jesus died.  But the Father brought Him back to life, and after the Resurrection all power in heaven and earth was returned to Him when He returned to the Father.

Take a deep breath, think about the Scriptures over a period of time, ask God for understanding, and if it is His will at this time, then He will give you understanding.  If not now, then later.  God's Spirit will give you peace but patience is needed.

John

[santgem]

But the question is;

Where is the Father when Jesus is Yahweh?

Let Jesus answer the question..."I and Father are one." John 10:30  But people don't believe Jesus or His Scriptures.  They think Jesus was confused.  They have to explain away His words.

The apostle Phillip asked Jesus to show them the Father.  Jesus said that if you saw Jesus then you saw the Father.  How is that?  Because Jesus and the Father are one.

Jesus "is the image of the invisible God."  Col 1:15  The Father is invisible Spirit; Jesus is the visible image of God in bodily form.  They are not two persons or two Gods.  God is One.  Jesus is one aspect of God.

That was what Ray tried to get across in his creed when he stated Jesus was God's Authorized Autobiography.  An autobiography is when you write about yourself not another.  But Ray's statement went over most people's heads.

Hello there! So, because "I [Jesus] and the Father are one", when Jesus died on the cross, God Himself passed away, gave up the ghost, right? Since Jesus and the Father are ONE, what affects Jesus affects the Father as well. So, who resurrected Jesus given the fact that the Father had died? If the Father didn't really die, then death is not really death--except maybe when applied to men only.

I need an aspirin people!!!!

I'm going to bed now. I work nights. I pray that God will help me understand this conundrum. I do believe Jesus is God in the O.T.

Hi Theo,

Maybe this will help.

In chapter 18 Of Genesis, Jehovah/Yahweh/Jesus appeared to Abraham on the Plains of Mamre, and visited with him under an oak tree.

The Hebrew indicates this was actually Jehovah, in visible form.  I'll refer to Him as Jesus.  Jesus had His feet washed.  Jesus ate a meal with Abraham.  We are even told the menu: Beef, bread, and some type of milk/cheese dish.  They all ate and were refreshed.

This brings to mind when Jesus met with the Apostles after His Resurrection.  Jesus appeared in physical, visible form.  The Apostles touched Him.  And to prove He wasn't some kind of spook, Jesus ate a piece of broiled fish and a honeycomb.

Now when the visible God physically met with Abraham, that didn't mean the invisible God did not also exist.  God as invisible Spirit still permeated all things in the universe and beyond, since the Scripture says that even the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him.

The Hebrew Scriptures teach that God can be seen and be manifested to humanity while at the same time being invisible Spirit that is everywhere.  They did not have any false idea that there were two Gods.  The Hebrew Scriptures teach explicitly that God is One.

To put it in plain English, God can chew gum and skip a rope at the same time.

When Jesus had emptied Himself, became flesh, and as a human man was put to death; that did not mean that the invisible God died.  Jesus died.  But the Father brought Him back to life, and after the Resurrection all power in heaven and earth was returned to Him when He returned to the Father.

Take a deep breath, think about the Scriptures over a period of time, ask God for understanding, and if it is His will at this time, then He will give you understanding.  If not now, then later.  God's Spirit will give you peace but patience is needed.

John

Jesus the Yahweh never called God "Father".
It is only when Jesus the man called God "Father".
When Jesus was resurrected and went up to the Father Yahweh, Jesus the Yahweh united with the Father the Yahweh and become One.
Father and Jesus are one Yahweh!

[darren]

I have no scriptures to back my statement up therefore this is just my belief. God The Creator Who created all things through The Word Jesus Christ is spirit therefore invisible and will not be seen with eyes. As Jesus said you have seen me therefore you have seen the Father. We will see Jesus with eyes. therefore we will see The Father. we will truly know God through His Word Jesus Christ.   God is in all and all is in God. 

[theophilus]

Thank you John for your input and advice. Much appreciated. 

[microlink]

Hi everyone,
Will we ever see the Father? Of course. Obviously not while we are in the flesh. But when resurrected at Christ's return - YES. Why does a Father have children? We will have an elder brother as spirit beings in the Family od God. Why are we going to be in that spiritual family? To work with and serve our elder brother and our Father. Our father loves us and we will love being with Him and see Him as He is just as we will see Jesus, our elder brother, as He is (I John).
Joe from Ottawa

[Rhys 🕊]

John 10:30  I and the Father are one."

Rev 22:4  They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

Done