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The next life, or the next life?

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GaryK:
Rather than disrespect Alex and hijack his thread, maybe a new thread is better.



From this thread:   http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,15055.20.html#msg133503

I'll quote myself:   
--- Quote ---"But man gets one lifetime of flesh.
--- End quote ---

Kat responded:


--- Quote ---"what is the life in the next age then and after that as well?"
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---"I believe the primary purpose for the next age is to rectify to all people what they experience in the age"
--- End quote ---


John responded:


--- Quote ---"Yeah, everyone gets a do-over. One major truth is that of the resurrection of the dead.  We don't just have this lifetime.  As Job said, "If a man die, will he live again?  All the days of my life will I wait until my change come.  You will call and I will answer."  So death is not the end of anything.  Death is sleep.  We will get a do-over until God decides we are O.K., then the last enemy to go will be death."
--- End quote ---




Are you both referring to?: Isaiah 26:9, Amplified Bible (AMP)


9 My soul yearns for You [O Lord] in the night, yes, my spirit within me seeks You earnestly; for [only] when Your judgments are in the earth will the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness (uprightness and right standing with God).


It would appear this verse is referring to the current "earth" and the inhabitants at the time of his judgments.    Do you both believe those judgments are currently ongoing?   And if you do, how then how will those judgments be exacted on someone who has lived, has died, buried, and no longer on this earth?   

Or please point to the scripture that you know will answer about the next life.



Kat responded: 
--- Quote ---I think you are saying that all the suffering that some certainly do have in this life is too much and it's wrong for God to put this much on humans.
--- End quote ---

Wrong?  No, he isn't wrong.  I believe he has ways beyond the understanding of the human mind.  And a short mind will disagree and complain, out of ignorance, until all the facts are known.    I believe he'll make things right Kat.   But it's beyond my understanding.  Besides, who am I to argue with Gods ways that I know nothing of?

What I want to know is HOW is he going to make things right?   I don't believe Isaiah 26:9 answers that question.  And I don't believe a man can be born anew from a mother's womb, unless you know of some scripture that I've overlooked.



To John: I mean you no disrespect by bringing your quote to this thread, actually a compliment.


To Kat:   you said:


--- Quote ---You might get tried of hearing me on this subject, but I feel it is worth any and every effort and that is the point of these discussions, to try and help someone.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---I know God has graced me to accept this, which I'm so thankful for. But I will try to help anybody if I possibly can.
--- End quote ---

Why would I tire of your efforts?

Am I not "someone"?

You and John, by your words, have given revival to my thinking, pried open some sleepy spiritual eyes, and prompted thoughts that will most certainly wash between my ears for awhile.   

I would think you would be happy knowing that both you and John have succeeded.

John from Kentucky:
Hi gk,

I don't want to go off into some tangent and answer a question you haven't asked.  So I'll answer what I think you're asking.  Don't know if this is the right track.

What gives me a frame of reference is knowledge of God's broad plan of salvation, as illustrated by the three major festival seasons mentioned in the Old Testament, which Ray has discussed.

First Passover, which shows the sacrifice of the Great Anointed One for the sins of all.

Second is the Feast of First Fruits, also called Pentecost, which is the time we are now in, which shows the salvation of a small group of called and chosen ones.  These few will be resurrected back to life in powerful spiritual bodies, like Jesus now has, and will rule with Jesus on the Earth and assist Him in the salvation of all the rest of humankind and other spiritual beings.

Finally, you have the Feast of Tabernacles, the great Fall feast, which shows the salvation of all.  All humanity, not in the 1st Resurrection, will be brought back to physical life and will be judged by Jesus and His saints, and be brought to repentance, and all things will be restored and set right.  This resurrection to physical life is shown in the prophecy in the Book of Ezechiel regarding the valley of the dry bones brought back to physical life.  Eventually all will become like Jesus and have never ending life in peace and joy.

You know in Ray's collection of emails is an entire section on "Resurrection" which addresses many questions concerning the resurrection of the dead.

I hope this helps somewhat in your inquiry.  If not, God will guide you in obtaining the truth.  Take care friend.

John

Kat:

Hi Horseman,

I just don't want to harp on something to someone if they really don't want to hear it is what I meant. Now that I know I will be glad to go on  ;D

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html
In this link Ray spoke on his belief that the elect would be raised up in the first resurrection with glorious spiritual bodies and all the rest of mankind would be raised back up with a physical body and put back on the earth to live again and at that time the world will be under Christ's rulership, as Satan will be bound (Rev. 20:1-3). So under Christ and the elects rule over the earth with total control and power, so all people will be given a new life to be purged and cleansed of any wickedness. When Christ rules people will not be able to carry on with their wicked ways, He will rule with all power and authority and the world will be a very different place than it is now.

Rev 21:1  Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
v. 2  And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
v. 3  And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.
v. 4  He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
v. 5  And He who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also He said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

Acts 17:31  because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."

During Christ's reign the world will learn righteousness through a process of correction, therefore the Scripture often cited by Ray.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

There is some indication as to how this will be done in Scripture.

1Cor 6:2  Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1Cor 3:11  For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
v. 12  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
v. 13  each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Luke 12:45  But if that servant says in his heart, "My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk,
v. 46  the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
v. 47  And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
v. 48  But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Dave in Tenn:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3108.0.html

Scroll down and find the email section on "resurrection" that John mentioned.

You said in the other thread that you don't believe in Hell.  Of course, neither do I.  But of near equal value to me is no longer believing in christendom's heaven.  Don't ask me to expound on what things will be like after Judgment.  It's not 'entered into the mind' of me either.  It's a bit easier to imagine life after Resurrection, but that's not clearly spelled out either.  The focus of Scripture concerning the Elect is about OUR judgment NOW (and by 'now' I mean the 'now' in the church everywhere and down through the generations since Pentecost).  Of course, there is a future for the Elect and we're not left totally ignorant about that either.

I know you didn't address me, but I actually LIKE to see your name pop in a post, so I figure I'm at least a bit entitled.   ;D

GaryK:
The thread is for anyone that can provide direction for answers, not just Dave, John or Kat.

John:   
--- Quote ---All humanity, not in the 1st Resurrection, will be brought back to physical life and will be judged by Jesus and His saints, and be brought to repentance, and all things will be restored and set right.
--- End quote ---

Yes, I have read of the return to physical life.   You mention:

Ezekiel:  37:8 And I beheld, and lo, on them [are] sinews, and flesh hath come up, and cover them doth skin over above -- and spirit there is none in them.

But the spirit is given to them/us:

37:22  And they are no more as two nations, Nor are they divided any more into two kingdoms again.


I can see and I do believe he will do these things.   But when I think of this John I am reminded of the time of Christs death, actually before also, where Lazarus is raised and then too those who come up out of the graves.  These are raised bodies as they were at the time of their death.  Grown mature bodies, in other words.

Read on, I'll get to my point.


John: 
--- Quote ---You know in Ray's collection of emails is an entire section on "Resurrection" which addresses many questions concerning the resurrection of the dead.
--- End quote ---

Dave mentions it below and I will read.


Kat:
--- Quote ---for the former things have passed away."

v. 5  And He who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new."
--- End quote ---


I'll come back to this.



Dave:
--- Quote ---I know you didn't address me..
--- End quote ---

I've always respected your comments on any study and said as much to you before. Doesn't count any less right here.   


Dave: 
--- Quote ---don't ask me to expound on what things will be like after Judgment.  It's not 'entered into the mind' of me either.
--- End quote ---



Dave, Kat and John also, I suppose that's it, or:  "what things will be like after Judgment.  It's not 'entered into the mind'.

And it isn't.

So where can this go from here?  Who can know how things really will be?   Even Paul said that what he saw couldn't be uttered.   

My direct frame for reference of inquiry: how is God going to re-make a childs "childhood"?....say from circumstances of: rape, incest, slavery, divorce, child beatings, on and on.   And not just a child, but anything where innocence and purpose, human or animal, has been trampled and lost before a good physical experience?  It's these dire events that traumatize.   There is a loss of any sense of esteem and purpose for this world.  The ramifications are endless, often to death, with never a re-compense to where these things are "made right" while this physcial exists.   And then comes the spiritual and never the re-gaining of what was supposed to be a physcial "right" experience like so many others were fortunate enough to have.

How is a child going to gain a childhood once the time is past and thier bones are old?   

Dave said it: it isn't given to know.

It just appears that the time of re-structure that We DO know from scripture, or from what is being mentioned here, is only making right to those who have been purposed to follow any other than Christ himself.   Nowhere is it made mention a child will have their busted childhood made anew.


So where is the mercy?

And perhaps too I'm placing more importance to the "physical world" than the spiritual world.  But how do children advance to thinking on such right things when the structure for those matters were stolen from them?

New wine will not be poured into old skins.

The losses seems to out-weigh the justice, whenever that comes.

And there are no answers.

And that, Kat, is where the rub is.   Not that it seems that God puts too much trouble on a person, but that: to some it is given, and to some they receive none.   The physical I'm speaking of.  How does God make that right?

Unless we start talking in terms of re-incarnation, which is ridiculous, where is the setting right of such things?

I hope that makes some sense to you all.

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