> General Discussions
Unequally yolked
orion77:
(Isa 58:1) Call out with the throat! Do not spare. Lift up your voice like the ram's horn! And declare to My people their rebellion, and their sins to the house of Jacob.
(Isa 58:2) Yet they seek Me day by day, and desire knowledge of My ways. As a nation that has done right, and not forsaking the judgment of their God, they ask Me about judgments of righteousness; they desire to draw near to God.
(Isa 58:3) They say, Why have we fasted, and You did not see? We have afflicted our soul, and You did not acknowledge. Behold, on the day of your fast you find pleasure; and you drive all your laborers hard.
(Isa 58:4) Look! You fast for strife, and for debate, and to strike with the fist of wickedness. Do not fast as today, to sound your voice in the high place.
(Isa 58:5) Is this like the fast I will choose, a day for a man to afflict his soul? To bow his head down like a bulrush, and he spreads sackcloth and ashes? Will you call to this as a fast and a day of delight to Jehovah?
(Isa 58:6) Is this not the fast I have chosen: to open bands of wickedness, to undo thongs of the yoke, and to send out the oppressed ones free; even that you pull off every yoke?
(Isa 58:7) Is it not to break your bread to the hungry, that you should bring the wandering poor home? When will you see the naked and cover him, and you will not hide yourself from your flesh?
(Isa 58:8) Then your light shall break as the dawn, and your healing shall spring up quickly; and your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of Jehovah shall gather you.
(Isa 58:9) Then you shall call, and Jehovah will answer; you shall cry, and He shall say, Here I am. If you put the yoke away from among you, the sending out of the finger, and the speaking of iniquity;
(Isa 58:10) and if you let out your soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then your light shall rise in the darkness, and your gloom shall be as the noonday.
(Isa 58:11) And Jehovah shall always guide you, and satisfy your soul in dry places, and make strong your bones. And you shall be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water whose waters do not fail.
(Isa 58:12) And those who come of you shall build the old ruins; you shall rear the foundations of many generations; and you shall be called, The repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to live in.
(Isa 58:13) If you turn your foot away because of the sabbath, from doing what you please on My holy days, and call the sabbath a delight, to the holiness of Jehovah, glorified; and shall glorify Him, to the holiness of not doing your own ways, from finding your own pleasure or speaking your word;
(Isa 58:14) then you shall delight yourself in Jehovah. And I will cause you to ride on the heights of the earth, and make you eat with the inheritance of your father Jacob. For the mouth of Jehovah has spoken.
His yoke, His sabbath, His rest.
(Heb 4:1) Therefore, let us fear lest perhaps a promise having been left to enter into His rest, that any of you may seem to come short.
(Heb 4:2) For, indeed, we have had the gospel preached to us, even as they also; but the Word did not profit those hearing it, not having been mixed with faith in the ones who heard.
(Heb 4:3) For we, the ones believing, enter into the rest, even as He said, "As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter into My rest," though the works had come into being from the foundation of the world. LXX-Psa. 94:11; MT-Psa. 95:11
(Heb 4:4) For He has spoken somewhere about the seventh day this way, "And God rested from all His works in the seventh day." Gen. 2:2
(Heb 4:5) And in this again, "They shall not enter into My rest." MT-Psalm 95:11
(Heb 4:6) Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those who formerly had the gospel preached did not enter in on account of disobedience,
(Heb 4:7) He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, Today (after so long a time, according as He has said), "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." MT-Psalm 95:7, 8
(Heb 4:8) For if Joshua gave them rest, then He would not have afterwards spoken about another day.
(Heb 4:9) So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.
(Heb 4:10) For he entering into His rest, he himself also rested from his works, as God had rested from His own. LXX-Psa. 95:11; Gen. 2:2
(Heb 4:11) Therefore, let us exert ourselves to enter into that rest, that not anyone fall in the same example of disobedience.
Example of disobedience and workers of lawlessness:
(Mat 7:23) And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness!" Psa. 6:8
(Mat 23:28) So you also indeed outwardly appear righteous to men, but within are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
(2Th 2:7) For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until it comes out of the midst.
(1Jo 3:4) Everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Notice in all these verses, its by their own works they practice lawlessness. Entering His rest is being obedient, following Christ, and considered holy by not doing our own ways, our own pleasure or by speaking our own words.
(Joh 5:30) I am able to do nothing from Myself; just as I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, for I do not seek My will, but the will of the One sending Me, the Father.
The perfect example of entering His rest.
God bless,
Gary
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Beloved
Your post reads.....you said when the believer has Chrst in them then the unbelivers are in the unequal position ....at least for this age.
That is not actually what I meant. This is what I said: We are all unequally yolked to Christ. I should have written as follows....We believers are all unequally yoked to Christ. We are not equal to Christ. As I understand this...a yoke is a form of harness that connects two animals together like two horses to pull a carriage or two cows to pull a plough. As I understand this, we are the one side of the yoke and Jesus puts himself into the other side to guide lead and direct us. This belief may be incorrect. It is for now how I see this only. With Jesus next to us in this yoke that is His, we are guided and directed by His presence beside us. His yoke is easy and light. He is not equal to us. We are not equal to Him. He interceeds for us by coming up next to us and putting His yoke upon us. Unbelievers are not yoked to Christ at all! The yoke they are under are as is presented via Gary in Gods word ....(Isa 58:6) Is this not the fast I have chosen: to open bands of wickedness, to undo thongs of the yoke, and to send out the oppressed ones free; even that you pull off every yoke?
I like what Gary brings forward for us to contemplate regarding the yoke of Christ....
His yoke, His sabbath, His rest.
(Heb 4:1) Therefore, let us fear lest perhaps a promise having been left to enter into His rest, that any of you may seem to come short.
(Heb 4:2) For, indeed, we have had the gospel preached to us, even as they also; but the Word did not profit those hearing it, not having been mixed with faith in the ones who heard.
(Heb 4:3) For we, the ones believing, enter into the rest, even as He said, "As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter into My rest," though the works had come into being from the foundation of the world. LXX-Psa. 94:11; MT-Psa. 95:11
(Heb 4:4) For He has spoken somewhere about the seventh day this way, "And God rested from all His works in the seventh day." Gen. 2:2
(Heb 4:5) And in this again, "They shall not enter into My rest." MT-Psalm 95:11
(Heb 4:6) Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those who formerly had the gospel preached did not enter in on account of disobedience,
(Heb 4:7) He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, Today (after so long a time, according as He has said), "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." MT-Psalm 95:7, 8
(Heb 4: For if Joshua gave them rest, then He would not have afterwards spoken about another day.
(Heb 4:9) So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.
(Heb 4:10) For he entering into His rest, he himself also rested from his works, as God had rested from His own. LXX-Psa. 95:11; Gen. 2:2
(Heb 4:11) Therefore, let us exert ourselves to enter into that rest, that not anyone fall in the same example of disobedience.
Is it the yoke of Christ that connects us believers all together with He as our head and we as His body?
Peace to you all
Arcturus.... :)
P S.... I love when these kind of things happen because they show me my family :D
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Beloved
I appreciate the effort.......I too spend much time pondering, contemplating and I agree, it can be trecherous to write and convey what we mean through written communication :D...I believe that is our opportunity however to hone our sight and understanding to be more concise and focused ......as difficult as it is :D
I too am not arguing or debating or trying to convince. I only give what I see and share as I see it.
I have no problem with what you have communicated and agree fully with how you see things. All I was expressing and sharing was the view that the believer too, is unequally yoked with Christ with the accent on Christ being perfect and the believer being called to perfection. "Be thou Holy as I am holy.".....is a call not a conclusion yet....I know we could find scriptures to say the opposite here. I listed several in another post....eg you are the light....you are a holy priesthood etc....
As I was exsperiencing the thoughts throughthis thread I began to see that the end result is not yet for me. I have not completed the race set before me. So being holy as God is Holy.... is the race we run.....the prize we reach towards don't you think? To be as Christ, in his image who is our prize.
My perspective in this thread was to offer how I see it from what Christ is and not from where the believer is. In this, I prepose that the believer too is unequally yoked because we can not have equallity with Christ and neither should equality be something we grasp at.
I am not arguing at all here. I am not in any disagreement at all. I am in a different perspective comingfrom a different angle that is not in contradiction with the Scriptures....and I agree, the scriptures you present do show very clearly what the believer is. From where I stand they show even more clearly our inequality with the living Christ and this is not a bad thing for me. It inspires hope and gratitude that He gives us His yoke that is easy and light.
The will of God for me is...Be Holy.....am I holy?....I am on my way....not there yet.... Is Christ in me Holy. Yes. Therein the inequality. Is this unbelief? ???...I will have to think....pray....ask....search some more :-\
Peace to you
Arcturus
andrevan:
--- Quote from: Michele on November 12, 2006, 08:17:40 AM ---THank you All for your thoughtful replies.
To answer the person here who said they have articles that disprove evolution etc.....please post them here if you don't mind.
PERsonally, I do not have a problem with evolution. WE do NOt know how God Created the world do we? Science and everything that gets discovered Should lead us closer to the "Mind of God". My problem with science as is stands today is how people try to use it to "disprove" God....that is certainly something that cannot be done anyway, but they try! That's my problem with evolutionists who try to say we popped up spontaneously from slime....I have no problem if we did occur that way, it's just that they try to say that it "just happened" and had nothing to do with a "Creator". And then I think "so where did the atoms and minerals and etc....come from that the first life was supposedly formed from" and They say "The Big Bang" and I say "What Made the Big Bang Occur" and They say "nobody knows for certain' and I say "God" and they say "So who created God" !!!!
--- End quote ---
Hi Michele
A belief that God used evolution to create life, is called theistic evolution (theist=belief in a god, a god). I do not recommend this approach in uniting the Creator Jesus to the story of evolution (everything made itself), as it has many contradictions, and is a compromise that isn’t necessary, because evolution (of all life from an primordial cell) has not occurred.
Some problems:
If we came from an ape like ancestor, what happens with “Let us be making man in our image”, at what point did we move from an animal to human? God said Adam was made from the dust of the ground, Eve was made from Adam's side.
Jesus said (speaking of marriage): “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female’”, Mark 10:6
“That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.” Luke 11:50-51. Adel was a son of Adam and Eve, his blood was shed at the foundation of the world (at the beginning). If humans arrived billions of years after the beginning (formation) of the world, what is Jesus talking about?
These are just a few issues, as you can imagine we’ll eventually run into theological problems, like the reasoning of Apostle Paul, with “as in Adam all die so in Christ…”, etc, etc.
We know how God created (through Jesus), it is recorded in Genesis 1, “And God SAID”. Every creature was created to reproduce after itself. This is contradicted by evolution that states everything diverged from an ancestral cell (one creature lead to another). Which one does empirical biology confirm? Well God’s creation of course :), creatures do only reproduce after themselves, even in bacteria that reproduce extremely quickly while undergoing huge amount of mutations. The bacteria always remains bacteria.
The reason why many Christians have a problem with the earth being “billions” of years old is that evolution requires MASSIVE amounts of deep time, because everything is supposed to happen by random chance and time. Destroy the deep time (billions of yrs) model, and you destroy the evolutionary hypothesis once and for all. This is the reason some scientists (on a shoe string budget) who are Christians are researching the various flaws in the earth dating methods, with promising results so far.
Science uses empirical evidence, evolution relies on circumstantial evidence, interpretation & philosophy. For example like the fossil record, sedimentary layers and paleontology. Evolution is not science, it is a BELIEF in our origins. This same circumstantial evidence is just as equally used to support God’s creation. For example, evolutionists claim the sedimentary layers were laid down over billions of years, while those believing in creation claim that most of those layers were laid down during the global flood of Noah’s day. All scientists know that sedimentary layers are formed by a water/chemical process. How we interpret this circumstantial evidence depends on our pre-beliefs (presuppositions) in our historical past. The same goes with fossils: one group claims they were formed over billions of years as creatures died and were buried, the other group claims that the creatures were buried rapidly (fossilized) in sediment during the global flood in Genesis.
As I touched on previously in this thread, no one has been able to create life from dead matter. All that was made were a few amino acids that were eventually destroyed anyway… whoops! No life there.
No one has been able to show a simple life form evolving into something higher and more complex by random mutations or any other method, the case with bacteria is a good example. What did the bacteria evolve into? Nothing, they remained bacteria… whoops again! When you hear of viruses evolving resistance to something this is nothing but smoke and mirrors, the bacteria actually adapted, but remained bacteria… always. The bacteria that did not have the genes to fight the invader eventually died out, therefore a loss of genetic code, the OPPOSITE of what evolution requires.
Sorry if this is too long, but I feel this is important in getting a basic understanding of this subject. After all God uses the “foolishness of preaching/teaching” to call the many.
“I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--
preach the word; be earnest in season, out of season, convict, rebuke, exhort, in all long-suffering and teaching,
for there shall be a season when the sound teaching they will not suffer, but according to their own desires to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
and indeed, from the truth the hearing they shall turn away, and to the fables they shall be turned aside”. Timothy 4:1-4. This also goes for those who would prefer to hear that there is no God.
--- Quote ---I dont know if i want to spend my life debating with people who are Looking for reasons not to believe, because God hasn't called them yet? Seems like a time/life waster doesn't it? But if God wants me to gather as much "evidence" of Him as possible to help others on their way to Him..then I want to do that.
The problem is most of the time I don't know what exactly to do.
--- End quote ---
We’ve all received different gifts from God; the Apostle Paul debated with the Jews in their synagogues and baffled them by his reasoning and debate. Not all of us have this gift of debating, but with a few key truths you can at least stand your ground if ever confronted.
“And all those hearing were amazed, and said, `Is not this he who laid waist in Jerusalem those calling on this name, and hither to this intent had come, that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?'
And Saul was still more strengthened, and he was confounding the Jews dwelling in Damascus, proving that this is the Christ.” Acts 9:21-22
“And he was with them, coming in and going out in Jerusalem,
and speaking boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, he was both speaking and disputing [debating] with the Hellenists, and they were taking in hand to kill him,” Acts 9:28-29
God be with you and bless you as you pursue the truth.
Andrevan.
Origin of Life (the first living cell):
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3028/
Natural Selection:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3035/
Speciation:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3036/
Mutations:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3026/
Genetics:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3005/
Information Theory:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3012/
Fossils:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3001
Other Topics:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/21/65/
Another excellent website is the Institute for Creation Research:
http://www.icr.org
Michele:
Thanks I'll check out the links. I don't think anything that has to do with "creationism" will have any effect whatsoever on persons who are already adverse to the whole idea of God. Or otherwise known as non-believers.....which they are because God hasn't "dragged" them to him yet, Yes?
I am Still trying so very hard to let go of the thoughts that was pounded into me as a child about having to "save" others from hellfire. It's hard to stop the fear.
One side of my family that I married into is nearly all athiest and the other side of my blood family is traditional fundamental christian. One side believes that God/Bible and everything associated with it is a myth, the christian side believes that everyone but the few who "believe through faith" are going to burn in "hell" for eternity.
And in the midst of this all i have a daughter to raise.
I feel very scared and alone a lot. I'm trying very hard to wrap God's truth around me but it's hard letting go of the fear even though I want to with all my heart.
I thought if I keep researching and "gathering" information that I'll have some good info for my child as she grows up and I can say I truly did everything that I could to help her on her way to God.
I keep telling myself that it's God that does the choosing and if he doesn't call you and you are Not a believer then that is what God meant to happen and it's all under control. Thje christian side thinks everyone is doomed and that all of revelations is literal and that hell is a place of torture for eternity and everyone can Choose to be saved and if you do not Choose to be saved in this lifetime that youre doomed to eternal damnation in "fire" and you deserve it because you didn't Choose to have Faith and believe in God/Jesus.
I thought all this time that I was looking for THE Correct answers for all of my loved ones, but maybe I'm here as much for myself, to help drive out all of the Lies, or what I believe are the False teachings I"ve had drummed into my head that have caused me so much anguish...and still are yet.
In the meantime, what do you do with this type of thing?
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/lnx.html
I'm wanting to the information clear back to the earliest versions/most accurate versions of the bible translations. I want to have the book that you use to translate the old words into english. I want to see with my own eyes where the translators mistranslated the word sheol into a word that most "christians" have been taught means "hellfire"but really means death/grave. After that I want to try to tackle all the other things that I have no idea how to deal with now (Please see the above link).
I cannot answer all of those questions. How can you even answer the basic question of your own faith? Can't. You are going towards God because he's dragging you to him...that's not an answer that stands up well with non-believers who obviously have not been called...yet.
I'm still struggling up the mountain. I feel inadequate to the task but feel i must try in order to keep my own sanity.
Can I make a blatant statement and see what you think. After 30 something years of being told Otherwise, I'd like to see if a basic statement that I woke up thinking the other morning is full of God's truth and accurate:
God is dragging to him those who he wants to know him. We did Not have anything to do with this. We did not choose him he chose us then we felt the need to come to search for Him? Most of the people in this world are Not chosen and do not know him. God meant for there to be Believers and NON believers. Why? I cannot answer that one..to teach us all some lesson? To show how merciful he is at the judgement to the non-believers? Anyway, being a NON believer is Not the athiests or non-christians fault because this is part of God's plan. If your spouse, friend, or child is a non-believer, despite you doing your best to show them what you know of God, then that's the way God wants it to be, for now, and you do Not have to worry about their eternal fate because God will fix it for everyone.
Is that accurate?
I have a list of 64 questions that non-believers ask "Christians". I cannot answer them and I don't know if anyone has ever tried. The non-believers seem to use them to poke fun at believers, or perhaps they are perfectly legitimate questions. Can Anyone here answer them? If someone could help answer them we could post them here for those searching for answers.
What about Richard Dawkins and all those like him who has a new book out about (God being bogus)? Non believers love that stuff.
While we cannot deny anything that is scientific "proof" about Creation, and why would we, it's the way they catagorically state that God is a myth, an old creation myth that always gets my goat. Despite every doubt I've ever had I've never been able to figure out how alll the athiestic scientists (definately not all are) say that everything could happen without a creator. They can make these fantastical leaps to how the Big bang started it all and on and on...but where did matter come from? Atoms, protons, neutrons? All the basic elements. ANything physical that exists, how did it come to be? People are always on about "Nature" is wonderful, power of Nature. Well, where does Nature and the Universe get it's power from? IT's God. That's what I think. And then they always say Well then miss smarty pants, where did GOD come from? ANd that's the end of that discussion because "God was always here" just don't cut it in the nonbelieving human mind. It's funny or sad to me how the nonbelieving scientists are so confidant about God not existing cause "nature just happened to develop by chance all on it's own", yet despite all the technology we have today and all the knowledge about the human genome etc....man has never ever been able to create life from non-life. What about that?
Should we spend out lives only in pursuit of getting closer to God? Or how much time do you spend on trying to show others?
I"ve been told to be humble and only try to answer when someone asks something, otherwise just keep on keeping on for yourself. And then you have this:
I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--
preach the word; be earnest in season, out of season, convict, rebuke, exhort, in all long-suffering and teaching,
for there shall be a season when the sound teaching they will not suffer, but according to their own desires to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
and indeed, from the truth the hearing they shall turn away, and to the fables they shall be turned aside”. Timothy 4:1-4. This also goes for those who would prefer to hear that there is no God.
I am Not knowledgeable enough about the Bible to tell anyone anything other than what I'm learning, except in my case nobody asks me because they think what I'm learning here is bologna, both sides of my family think that.
It all leaves me feeling extremely overwhelmed and completely uncertain what to do next.
I truly need a life plan, and a life plan that will help me live in as much peace and harmony as is possible being married to a nonbeliver, having a fundamental christian family on the other side, and worrying about my child all at the same time.
Can I just keep studying about the Truth of God and let everything else go? Can I find it inside my skeptical, fearsome self to just let God have it all and stop worrying? I"m terrified of doing or saying the wrong things.
HOW do you keep others from hurting you on this journey when you believe something so different to what they think?
How do you go on when you feel so alone and persecuted...even silent persecution hurts terribly.
What do you do when you tell your child one thing and your spouse another..how's it going to know what to follow and if they don't follow what you think is True, how do you stop liiving in fear?
Thanks for your help.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version