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Author Topic: Maybe Adam is the first man!!  (Read 19050 times)

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cheekie3

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2013, 04:18:07 PM »

All -

I do not see or get this.

If Humanity was created male and female; and then later The Lord selected Adam - why was Adam not with another woman and why did The Lord make Eve for Adam.

I can understand that The Lord selected Adam to make him into a different type of a man / humanity - but I just do not understand the reason why Adam was lonely until Eve was given to him by The Lord.

George.

 
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2013, 04:44:49 PM »

Hi George, here is excerpt from Genesis 2 in the CLV in case you don't have it.

Gen 2:15 And taking is Yahweh Elohim the human that he had formed and is leaving him in the garden of Eden to serve it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And instructing is Yahweh Elohim the human, saying, "From every tree of the garden, you are to eat, yea, eat.
Gen 2:17 Yet from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you are not to be eating from it, for in the day you eat from it, to die shall you be dying.
Gen 2:18 And saying is Yahweh Elohim, "Not good is it for the human for him to be alone. Make for him will I a helper as his complement.
Gen 2:19 And furthermore Yahweh Elohim, having formed from the ground all field life and every flyer of the heavens, He is also bringing it to the human to see what he will call it. And whatever the human living soul is calling it, that is its name.
Gen 2:20 And calling is the human the names for every beast and for every flyer of the heavens, and for all field life. Yet for the human He does not find a helper as His complement.
Gen 2:21 And falling is a stupor on the human, caused by Yahweh Elohim, and he is sleeping. And taking is He one of his angular organs and is closing the flesh under it.
Gen 2:22 And Yahweh Elohim is building the angular organ, which He takes from the human, into a woman, and bringing her is He to the human.
Gen 2:23 And saying is the human, "This was once bone of my bones and flesh from my flesh. This shall be called woman, for from her man is this taken.
Gen 2:24 Therefore a man shall forsake his father and his mother and cling to his wife, and they two become one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And coming are they two, the human and his wife, to be naked, yet are not shaming themselves.

That may raise more questions than it answers, but it a helpful version in distinguishing verb tenses and a more 'concordant' translation, though it doesn't make it a perfect translation as no such thing exists.

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2013, 06:41:08 PM »


Hi George,

The way I am seeing this is that the first man and woman created in Genesis 1 was to began the creation of humans on the earth. I do not believe it was an experiment to see how humans would do or something, as some have suggested. It was to establish humans on the earth and to produce a population that were self sufficient and lived off the land without manipulating it at all.

God formed Adam as a new human, not so much as different in form, intelligence or capability as the others, but Adam was to be the beginning of 'God's people' down through history. We have a list in Hebrews 11 of many names that were faithful servants of God in the OT.

I believe Adam was taught many things (much more than just farming) by God that Adam and his descendants were to likewise teach to the rest of the world. This would bring about a huge leap forward in the progress towards sophistication of the human race, exactly as God intended.

It was with Adam that God began His interaction with people and all through the OT we see that He continued to work with Adam's descendants through history on down to when Jesus Christ was born in the flesh on earth.

After Jesus Christ came God no longer had a particular line of people that were dealt with and known as His people. No, from then on a person was considered God's chosen by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Gal 3:26  For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29  And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Col 3:11  where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
29  but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

This is the process God developed, a very intricate plan that in many cases you can see there were events that foreshadows things that would come later on.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Ricky

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2013, 11:00:38 PM »

Bulls eye Kat, :) Adam Gods first man of HIS kind. God probably made male and female racist different people on the 6th day and placed them in different parts of the world, except the garden of Eden, which was protected for Adam and Eve. This would explain how Adam and Eve evently made Eskimos.
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Your heart is God`s gift to you, what you make of it, shall be your gift to Him.

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2013, 11:19:39 PM »

Ricky, I would never use the word "probably" for such a statement.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

acomplishedartis

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2013, 11:28:23 PM »


I am still waiting for my Eve...        :l
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2013, 03:56:51 AM »



lol Moises....just a bit of Motherly advise...don't be looking for a woman fashioned out of bone....continue looking rather for that one who is of His Spirit, Heart and Love, and that's the way to go! So keep on keeping on.  :)

Arc
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acomplishedartis

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2013, 04:17:47 AM »

Devora, thanks for your advance...   :)


So, chances are very good; I stay waiting for very long...
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 05:46:01 AM by Moises G. »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2013, 05:12:02 PM »




You are always welcome Moises ~
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cjwood

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2013, 04:37:29 AM »

it seems like there are some things being said in some posts here that are not backed up by Scripture, or not expounded on by ray.

claudia
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Rhys 🕊

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2013, 07:41:43 AM »

it seems like there are some things being said in some posts here that are not backed up by Scripture, or not expounded on by ray.

claudia

Agree, that's why they slip into off topics  ;D

« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 07:46:15 AM by Rhys »
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Oatmeal

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2013, 07:07:02 AM »


Hi George,

The way I am seeing this is that the first man and woman created in Genesis 1 was to began the creation of humans on the earth. I do not believe it was an experiment to see how humans would do or something, as some have suggested. It was to establish humans on the earth and to produce a population that were self sufficient and lived off the land without manipulating it at all.

God formed Adam as a new human…


Hi Kat

Thank you for expressing your view that there were two separate creations of mankind.  I do have some difficulty with the concept and perhaps you will be able to provide further clarification and foundation as to why you believe such.

I am unable to reconcile a pre-Adam humankind with the following Scriptures:

Acts 17:26a

KJV
AndG5037 hath madeG4160 ofG1537 oneG1520 bloodG129 allG3956 nationsG1484 of menG444

CLV
Besides, He makes out of one every nation of mankind

Genesis 3:20

KJV
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

CLV
And calling is the human his wife's name Eve, for she becomes the mother of all the living.

Matthew 19:4-5 (CLV)
Now He, answering, said, "Did you not read that the Maker from the beginning makes them male and female, and He said, 'On this account a man shall be leaving father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh'?

Mark 10:6-8a (CLV)
Yet from the beginning of creation God makes them male and female. On this account a man will be leaving his father and mother and will be joined to his wife, and the two will be one flesh.

Please correct me if I have a misunderstanding, but it seems to me that Jesus was making reference to the male and female humankind made from the beginning of creation (because that is what He said) and on this account (God making male and female from the beginning of creation) a man was to leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife.

The first reference to God making male and female mankind is in Genesis 1:

Genesis 1:26-27 (KJV)
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

If one prefers the CLV, it is:

And saying is the Elohim, "Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land. And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.

The first reference to a man leaving/forsaking his father and his mother and clinging to his wife and the two becoming one flesh is in Genesis 2:

Genesis 2:21-24 (CLV)
And falling is a stupor on the human, caused by Yahweh Elohim, and he is sleeping. And taking is He one of his angular organs and is closing the flesh under it. And Yahweh Elohim is building the angular organ, which He takes from the human, into a woman, and bringing her is He to the human. And saying is the human, "This was once bone of my bones and flesh from my flesh. This shall be called woman, for from her man is this taken. Therefore a man shall forsake his father and his mother and cling to his wife, and they two become one flesh.

The above Scripture in Genesis 2 says that because woman was taken out of man therefore a man shall forsake his father and his mother and cling to his wife, and the two become one flesh.  However Jesus said that because from the beginning God made them male and female, on this account, a man shall leave his father and his mother and become one flesh with his wife.  Jesus did not say, because the woman was taken out of the man, on this account, a man shall leave father and mother and become one flesh with his wife, but because from the beginning God made them male and female.  It therefore appears (to me) that Jesus quoted partly from Genesis 1 (and/or Genesis 5 see below) and continued on with a quote from Genesis 2 as if the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 human creation accounts were the same occurrence.

The following Scripture (also?) combines and merges the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 making of mankind accounts, using the “likeness of God” and the “male and female” expressions of Genesis 1, and referring to Adam not only as a single identity, but also as a group, to be specific: as male and female.

Genesis 5:1-5 (CLV)
This is the scroll of the genealogical annals of Adam: In the day the Elohim created Adam, in the likeness of the Elohim He made him. Male and female created He them; and blessing them is He, and calling their name Adam in the day they are created. And living is Adam two hundred and thirty years. And begetting is he one in his likeness, according to his image. And calling is he his name Seth. And coming are the days of Adam, after his begetting Seth, to be seven hundred years. And begetting is he sons and daughters. And coming are all the days of Adam, which he lives, to be nine hundred and thirty years. And he died.

Therefore how can the creating of male and female in the image and likeness of God and the creation of Adam be separated, when the Scriptures tie them together as one?

Please note that I have simply quoted Scripture, with some straightforward explanation of my understanding of not all of those Scriptures.  It is fair if the Scriptures above are addressed and not avoided in regard to this matter, or else how can the matter stand?  If I have misunderstood Scripture, and remembering that Scripture does not contradict Scripture, please explain, using Scripture, how I have misunderstood Scripture.  Please ensure that Scripture is put before conjecture.

Please note also that I have not disagreed with Ray's teachings of Adam not being the first human created.  I am not knowledgeable enough or smart enough to do that.  Let the Scriptures speak for the Scriptures.  I have asked for clarification in regard to Scriptures that appear to me to contradict the teaching.  I am willing to be corrected in regard to my understanding of the Scriptures.

Oatmeal
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From Micah 7:9:  By the grace and call of Yahweh I will bear the trials of the narrow way, because I have no love, until He fully shows me my sin and I am judged by Him.  He will bring me forth to the light, and I shall see His righteousness.

Kat

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2013, 10:53:56 AM »


Hi Oatmeal,

Very thought provoking questions. Ray did mention that he believed that there were people before Adam, but only in the briefest way and with no further explanation that I know of. Therefore I must decline to answer because of the rules of the forum.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2013, 05:01:50 PM »

Ray alludes to the fact that the people outside the garden that Cain took as his wife, were neanderthals.

There is evidence of mating between homosapiens and other primates of the homo genus.

We also have Neanderthal DNA in us, this has all been scientifically determined and is a popular theory on the interactions between homosapiens and its cousins. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/science/07neanderthal.html?_r=0

However, there is also part of the scientific community that argues that this common DNA found in homosapians and neanderthals is not because of interbreeding but rather due to common lineage, that is to say that, we share a common ancestor somewhere down the phylogenetic tree.

It is believed homosapiens wiped out the other human likespecies such as neanderthals etc.. due to their superior ability to compete and advance (think farming, reading - more advanced basically).

Also, just like adam and even were suddenly created in the Garden, Homosapians suddenly appeared on earth sometime ago in this same fashion and there has been no "missing link" to tie us in with the other species.

Adam and eve were the first kind of human that could commune with God, have a relationship with Him - KNOW HIM -, they also introduced agriculture and writing to the world. This latter part is a fact of history and in this sense, they were VERY DIFFERENT from their cousins the neanderthals and other's of the homo genus. You could argue... an entirely different animal.

Take this evidence to mean what you want but I think the biblical account in Genesis is pretty historically accurate as far as science and human endeavors can surmise.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 06:46:05 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2013, 09:11:17 PM »

Science says modern man goes back at least 50,000 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

The church says man has been here about 6,000 years, but the church is almost always wrong.

Wikipedia says: "Humans began to practice sedentary agriculture about 12,000 years ago..." which could easily go back to Adam and Eve.

Ray was of the opinion that there were human type beings before Adam and Eve. He had good reason to think this but it escapes me.

But whatever ... we'll find out someday. This is not something that keeps me up at night.
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gregorydc

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2013, 12:12:39 AM »

Just a quick thought, if Adam was protected in the garden, and had never seen another "human" then, why wouldn't he call Eve the mother of all living if she was his only female of his "species" that he had ever seen?  Hope that makes sense. 
Greg 
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2013, 08:34:39 AM »


Mat 8:22  But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
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indianabob

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2013, 02:47:32 PM »

Hi Gregory,
Valid comment.
The fact remains that we are left to place the "evidence" of human derived science above the scriptures in this instance if not in several other areas.

Question then. How many people did God create, in pairs or in groups or in full tribes that preceded the first sentient beings that were aware of God? For what purpose that is not spoken of in scripture?
Must we assume that God created Elk for example as in the first pair or in the first herd of thousands?
Scripture says that man (adam) was created to subdue and manage the balance of the created order. In other words the created order of animals and fish and so forth could exist alone without mankind in the picture. So man was not necessarily a precursor to the success of the lower animal kingdoms in events such as animal husbandry to develop a range of different species within a family. (correction invited)

The fact that we find animal bones on many widely separated continents doesn't prove that they all were created where they are found does it?

It is I think a valid question although L. Ray did not apparently address that issue. (correction invited)
Do we have some proof that the evidence of science as to the age of ancient bones is without criticism.

Science works through many theories and postulations before the get down to reproducible facts in nature or the laboratory of practical application. e.g. is "Uniformatarianism" valid? Has nothing changed since events in scripture?

The discovered errors out number the provable facts by a factor of 1000 in many instances and the provable science is certainly a revelation of God to humanity according to God's timing and a gift to the scientist who first publicized the information just before it appeared elsewhere. Everything on God's time table.

Indiana Bob
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 04:22:07 PM by indianabob »
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Kat

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2013, 07:00:26 PM »


It just seems that so many believe that science contradict what Scripture says... I disagree, at least in some instances. The Scripture certainly state the truth of the matter, and science has it's own evidence that match with in when it is honest science. It is our interpretation of what the Scriptures say that is usually in error and lead to seeming contradictions.

I believe the Scriptures are written about the people of God and to the people of God concerning salvation, and others are only mentioned as needed where they come in contact with God's people. God's plan of salvation begins with Adam, and that is where the Scripture mainly begins it's commentary on people. Before that there was only the brief mentions of them where they fit into the initial creation process.

We do have accurate dating in Scripture as to when Adam lived and there is also plenty of scientific evidence (all which should not be simply brushed aside) of people living way before that. There was certainly good reason God did it that way, and I do believe we have many references to these people in the Scripture, if you have eyes to see it. Why do you think the Gentiles were so despised by the Jews and looked down upon to such a degree, called dogs? They were not God's people and were not believed to be in line for salvation, Adam's line. It's not that there is nothing in Scripture on these other people, but for the most part their identity just hasn't been reveal yet.

Well anyway couldn't resist speaking up on this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 09:12:57 PM by Kat »
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dodrill

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Re: Maybe Adam is the first man!!
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2013, 07:27:55 PM »

I asked a very naive question about Adam and eve being jewish/ hebrew ? yes anglo saxion and pale skinned that I am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve

and I found a creation story of adam having a wife before eve - liliath? there are many creation stories - same theme, same story - just illustrated differently

What amazed me is that oral tradition is more valid than a written word - and that is why many cultures write right to left - as in it looses its validity if I have to write it down rather than tell you how it is - well - that is what I learned today from armchair exploring and hoping I can hear from Spirit - Our Maker and Placer x does it matter? God places Himself above His Word - must be His spoken word /can't be His written word - because we don't have it right yet
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 07:45:39 PM by hayley »
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