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Maybe Adam is the first man!!

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Rhys 🕊:

--- Quote from: cjwood on May 23, 2013, 01:37:29 AM ---it seems like there are some things being said in some posts here that are not backed up by Scripture, or not expounded on by ray.

claudia

--- End quote ---

Agree, that's why they slip into off topics  ;D

Oatmeal:

--- Quote from: Kat on May 21, 2013, 03:41:08 PM ---
Hi George,

The way I am seeing this is that the first man and woman created in Genesis 1 was to began the creation of humans on the earth. I do not believe it was an experiment to see how humans would do or something, as some have suggested. It was to establish humans on the earth and to produce a population that were self sufficient and lived off the land without manipulating it at all.

God formed Adam as a new human…


--- End quote ---

Hi Kat

Thank you for expressing your view that there were two separate creations of mankind.  I do have some difficulty with the concept and perhaps you will be able to provide further clarification and foundation as to why you believe such.

I am unable to reconcile a pre-Adam humankind with the following Scriptures:

Acts 17:26a

KJV
AndG5037 hath madeG4160 ofG1537 oneG1520 bloodG129 allG3956 nationsG1484 of menG444

CLV
Besides, He makes out of one every nation of mankind

Genesis 3:20

KJV
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

CLV
And calling is the human his wife's name Eve, for she becomes the mother of all the living.

Matthew 19:4-5 (CLV)
Now He, answering, said, "Did you not read that the Maker from the beginning makes them male and female, and He said, 'On this account a man shall be leaving father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh'?

Mark 10:6-8a (CLV)
Yet from the beginning of creation God makes them male and female. On this account a man will be leaving his father and mother and will be joined to his wife, and the two will be one flesh.

Please correct me if I have a misunderstanding, but it seems to me that Jesus was making reference to the male and female humankind made from the beginning of creation (because that is what He said) and on this account (God making male and female from the beginning of creation) a man was to leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife.

The first reference to God making male and female mankind is in Genesis 1:

Genesis 1:26-27 (KJV)
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

If one prefers the CLV, it is:

And saying is the Elohim, "Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land. And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.

The first reference to a man leaving/forsaking his father and his mother and clinging to his wife and the two becoming one flesh is in Genesis 2:

Genesis 2:21-24 (CLV)
And falling is a stupor on the human, caused by Yahweh Elohim, and he is sleeping. And taking is He one of his angular organs and is closing the flesh under it. And Yahweh Elohim is building the angular organ, which He takes from the human, into a woman, and bringing her is He to the human. And saying is the human, "This was once bone of my bones and flesh from my flesh. This shall be called woman, for from her man is this taken. Therefore a man shall forsake his father and his mother and cling to his wife, and they two become one flesh.

The above Scripture in Genesis 2 says that because woman was taken out of man therefore a man shall forsake his father and his mother and cling to his wife, and the two become one flesh.  However Jesus said that because from the beginning God made them male and female, on this account, a man shall leave his father and his mother and become one flesh with his wife.  Jesus did not say, because the woman was taken out of the man, on this account, a man shall leave father and mother and become one flesh with his wife, but because from the beginning God made them male and female.  It therefore appears (to me) that Jesus quoted partly from Genesis 1 (and/or Genesis 5 see below) and continued on with a quote from Genesis 2 as if the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 human creation accounts were the same occurrence.

The following Scripture (also?) combines and merges the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 making of mankind accounts, using the “likeness of God” and the “male and female” expressions of Genesis 1, and referring to Adam not only as a single identity, but also as a group, to be specific: as male and female.

Genesis 5:1-5 (CLV)
This is the scroll of the genealogical annals of Adam: In the day the Elohim created Adam, in the likeness of the Elohim He made him. Male and female created He them; and blessing them is He, and calling their name Adam in the day they are created. And living is Adam two hundred and thirty years. And begetting is he one in his likeness, according to his image. And calling is he his name Seth. And coming are the days of Adam, after his begetting Seth, to be seven hundred years. And begetting is he sons and daughters. And coming are all the days of Adam, which he lives, to be nine hundred and thirty years. And he died.

Therefore how can the creating of male and female in the image and likeness of God and the creation of Adam be separated, when the Scriptures tie them together as one?

Please note that I have simply quoted Scripture, with some straightforward explanation of my understanding of not all of those Scriptures.  It is fair if the Scriptures above are addressed and not avoided in regard to this matter, or else how can the matter stand?  If I have misunderstood Scripture, and remembering that Scripture does not contradict Scripture, please explain, using Scripture, how I have misunderstood Scripture.  Please ensure that Scripture is put before conjecture.

Please note also that I have not disagreed with Ray's teachings of Adam not being the first human created.  I am not knowledgeable enough or smart enough to do that.  Let the Scriptures speak for the Scriptures.  I have asked for clarification in regard to Scriptures that appear to me to contradict the teaching.  I am willing to be corrected in regard to my understanding of the Scriptures.

Oatmeal

Kat:

Hi Oatmeal,

Very thought provoking questions. Ray did mention that he believed that there were people before Adam, but only in the briefest way and with no further explanation that I know of. Therefore I must decline to answer because of the rules of the forum.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

lilitalienboi16:
Ray alludes to the fact that the people outside the garden that Cain took as his wife, were neanderthals.

There is evidence of mating between homosapiens and other primates of the homo genus.

We also have Neanderthal DNA in us, this has all been scientifically determined and is a popular theory on the interactions between homosapiens and its cousins. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/science/07neanderthal.html?_r=0

However, there is also part of the scientific community that argues that this common DNA found in homosapians and neanderthals is not because of interbreeding but rather due to common lineage, that is to say that, we share a common ancestor somewhere down the phylogenetic tree.

It is believed homosapiens wiped out the other human likespecies such as neanderthals etc.. due to their superior ability to compete and advance (think farming, reading - more advanced basically).

Also, just like adam and even were suddenly created in the Garden, Homosapians suddenly appeared on earth sometime ago in this same fashion and there has been no "missing link" to tie us in with the other species.

Adam and eve were the first kind of human that could commune with God, have a relationship with Him - KNOW HIM -, they also introduced agriculture and writing to the world. This latter part is a fact of history and in this sense, they were VERY DIFFERENT from their cousins the neanderthals and other's of the homo genus. You could argue... an entirely different animal.

Take this evidence to mean what you want but I think the biblical account in Genesis is pretty historically accurate as far as science and human endeavors can surmise.

Dennis Vogel:
Science says modern man goes back at least 50,000 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

The church says man has been here about 6,000 years, but the church is almost always wrong.

Wikipedia says: "Humans began to practice sedentary agriculture about 12,000 years ago..." which could easily go back to Adam and Eve.

Ray was of the opinion that there were human type beings before Adam and Eve. He had good reason to think this but it escapes me.

But whatever ... we'll find out someday. This is not something that keeps me up at night.

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