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[Craig]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/heaven-for-atheists-pope-sparks-debate/?hpt=hp_c4

[Akira329]

Such a different Pope!

[Rhys 🕊]

Whatever he's selling I'm not buying

Deception all over the place from the church and those in the world as this quote says from David Silverman

“While the concept of Jesus dying for atheists is wrong on many levels (especially given that Jesus himself promised hell for blasphemers)

The nonsense continues to spread

Rhys 

[acomplishedartis]

I was going to make a topic about this, but here might be a good place for it;

How can you even talk with catholics?? They have more books, that they take as authority, which contradict

the Scriptures, they also have man autorities that can say whatever the heck they want...  (at least

non-catholic christians have the same books).  How can anyone even have a ''common sense'' chat with

somebody who pray to physical idols, in such creepy churches that are full of pagan garbage. (Mexican Catholic churches are sooo creepy)

I wonder if anyone around here used to be a chatolic and have some answers for me... and I also wonder if that

is even possible.




( Sorry, I need to take that out of my chest... But, I am being serious )

[Rhys 🕊]

Never catholic and never will be.

Tell them the truth that you do know. If they don't listen walk away - you won't convince them of these truths.

If the Spirit of God does not show you - how will you know and how will they know.

They are in darkness unless the Lord shines the light they will not see because of there blindness.


1Co 2:10  these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
1Co 2:11  For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
1Co 2:13  And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

I see these truths because the Spirit of God shows me. It's the way He did it for me and the only way for them.

The Lord switched the light on and I could see - I didn't know where the light switch was - Not been silly - Think about it.

Rhys

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Moises

I was a Minister of the Word in the Roman Catholic Church.

To answer your question, one doesn't have to be a Minister in any Church. One has to come out of Babylon, and one does so, by Grace, not preference.

Dogma and indoctrinations begin with the wheat and the tares growing together. The painful transition out of deception is not one that anyone would prefer to follow, who suffer for leaving the crowd, the church, rituals, customs, traditions and false beliefs of humanity.

We are "dragged" to our senses not because WE are wise, smart, holy or intelligent enough to know what we want or to want to wake up ~ 

Arc

[Rene]

somebody who pray to physical idols, in such creepy churches that are full of pagan garbage. (Mexican Catholic churches are sooo creepy)

I've never been Catholic, but I have to admit their rituals and obvious idolatry has always seemed creepy to me as well.

By the grace of God, I am no longer deceived by any of the false religions.  I am humbled by that reality and never want to be so arrogant as to believe it has anything to do with me. 

I do not believe the Pope is trying to deceive anyone. He, himself, is deceived and blind so he has no choice but to do what he does.  All of these false religions will be exposed for what they are in due time, but for now, they serve a mighty purpose in Gods master plan of salvation.

René

[G. Driggs]

Arc and Rene that's what I'm talking bout. Tell it like it is.

[acomplishedartis]

Thanks you all for your responses. I agree with everything being said. I know that it's only by the grace of God that we know what we know and that we are who we are.

Where I wanted to go with this, is a more technical aspect. I am going to try to put it with as less words as possible and will try to be as clear as I possible can.

  It took me long to realize that to come OUT, first we have to be IN on the first place. It's necessary that first we loose our first love, that we believe that there is a God and that we RESPECT the Scriptures as the words of God (even when we don't have a clue what most of them mean). All these is part of God working in us, dragging us to look for more truth and save us. (Is God doing it all the time, NOT US,  but it has an order).

The Scriptures are like the ''how to do it manual'' (Christians have the same manual even when they don't understand almost anything of it). The thing is that to be able to read a ''manual'' first we have to know how to read. God is the one that by grace show us how to read, and then, slowly, the Scriptures start to make sense and a lot of them start to connect incredibly well.

  Now. Here is my question again.
How can you even talk with SOMEBODY (from any other religion) who have a different ''manual''?? You CAN'T.  They can't come OUT of Christendom since they where never IN on the first place.

With catholics this is tricky, because while they call themselves christians, and they are supposedly part of Christendom, they have other ''manuals'' which contradict the Scriptures. If I talk with someone of x religion who doesn't respect the bible and he tell me that he is right because his ''x religion book'' says so. I would only tell him ''Cool'' and move on the subject since I don't take his book as an authority.


I am not trying to go back to the subject of ''trying to preach'', or ''introducing others into my believes'' or trying to be arrogant...

What I am trying to do here is to confirm, where can I place this catholic people?... On one side, they

also have the Scriptures, and they are actually the mother of so many evangelic denominations. On the other,

they have other ''manuals'' and ''authorities'' that simply make me want to say, ''that's cool that you believe

that'' and walk away, as if they where as any other pagan religion.




(Personally I haven't met people who used to be catholic before knowing this truths.
Arcturus, I wonder if you became Christian (other than catholic) before coming to this truths?)

[acomplishedartis]

What happens with mormons is very similar. They have told me that Jesus came to Mexico, and they even have an image of it in their mormon book. Just... what can you say to that? 

I should say, ''cool, go next door, maybe the neighboards want to buy that...''

[acomplishedartis]

Jonh, Thanks so much for your input and your story. It confirms my suspicions.
I did have some idea about the the roman catholic church since a very big porcentage of the Mexican population is Catholic. Later on, maybe I would like to know more about their religion.

I always used to wonder why Ray didn't used to write much agaist catholic sermons. It seems like now I have my answer.

[acomplishedartis]

Regarding the first post. This is what I think of it:

Seems like THE MESSAGE has to match with US. I personally not care what this random person dressed in white have to say about any spiritual subject.

1Thess. 2:3-5  God tested us thoroughly to make sure we were qualified to be trusted with this

Message. Be assured that when we speak to you we're not after crowd approval — only God approval. Since

we've been put through that battery of tests, you're guaranteed that both we and the Message

are free of error, mixed motives, or hidden agendas.  We never used words to butter you up. No one knows that better

than you. And God knows we never used words as a smoke screen to take advantage of you.                                                                                                         [The Message Version]




Anyway. In comparison with what other catholics usually say, that was kind of interesting...   :l

[Deborah-Leigh]

Arcturus, I wonder if you became Christian (other than catholic) before coming to this truths?

Hi  Moises,
Yes, what you say is so, YET, now, presently,  I know, I am not Christian either ~ 

Christian is too narrow and limited a term. The word Christian is a dogma magnet so to say.

If you call ME Christian, then you have to call Jesus Christian too. Jesus was a Jew. ~ 

The ego logic mind, loves to produce name tags and codes to censure  people into carefully demarcated, certified, measured, judgement box's.

I am out of the box of religion and all associated  name calling and fear driven diversities.

We are all the same.

The experiences of humanity is all in the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. When God will be all in all it is as written, ALL in ALL. Ray makes exceptional study that All does mean All. No one left out, marginalized, ostracised or eliminated.

Humanity is being raised, through Grace, Divine influence on our hearts, to match the Message, into His Image. The Scripture you quote is perfectly true! Thank you.

Arc

[arion]

1) The authority of the Church (called the Magisterium) to decide questions of faith and morals, with the Pope being the spokesman.
2) Unwritten Traditions of the Church, which were handed down from the Apostles to the Church and passed on century after century.
3) The Scriptures.

And the order that you have labeled these three are accurate in importance.  If you can show a scriptural contradiction between their belief system and the scriptures the authority of the church and tradition will win over the scripture any day of the week.  A few years ago after coming to this forum I've quit arguing with religious people on all of these issues.  I don't fancy myself a teacher or believe I am called to a debating society anymore.

As one wag has stated 'A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still'.  They won't listen until God opens their eyes and their hearts to His truth in His timing.  If I'm talking with people online I'll usually make one or two points and then leave a link back to the website.  If God is working in them he'll bring them around sooner or later.

[onelovedread]

 All of these false religions will be exposed for what they are in due time, but for now, they serve a mighty purpose in Gods master plan of salvation.

René
[/quote]

Isn't that the truth! Moreover even what we believe and what Ray has taught will be shaken since no one has all the truth. We haven't even begun to scratch the surface. We think we are authorities but
"Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable His judgments, and His paths beyond tracing out!
Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or Who has been His counselor?..."

[Rito1980]

theres deception everywhere. Including in BT's. Just Knowing verses wont do much.