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[rumpelstiltskin]

God’s Word portrays a far different and higher spiritual destiny than the Christian candy-coated heaven of a Disney World Magic Kingdom with pearly gates, streets of gold, fluffy clouds, and chubby-cheeked cherubs strumming their little harps while huge choruses sing rock-n-roll gospel music and the saints practice rapping with the angels in a land of endless mountains of chocolate and candy where everyone has his own mansion in which to live in the lap of perpetual luxury, laziness, and non-accomplishment, catering to the lusts of the flesh while delighting over a vision of countless billions writhing in unspeakable torturous pain of an eternal lake of fire. What a HELL that would be!
 

[Duane]

Did you ever notice at funerals the HEAVY EMPHASIS on "being reunited with loved ones" and "mulling over the good times they had on earth" and; and also:--- "Oh, they will see Jesus, too!"?

Did you ever hear at a funeral:  John 3:13 "And NO MAN hath ascended up into heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man Who is in heaven."?

"And I am sure he/she is looking down on us right now and smiling."  Ecc. 9:5 "The living know that they will die, BUT THE DEAD KNOW NOTHING...."?

All this and much, MUCH more is due to Ray and his influence on me.  I could go on and on with the misrepresentation of 'CHRISTIAN FUNERALS" but this is not a teaching site and I don't want to break the rules. :-)

[Dave in Tenn]

Heaven:  To do interesting, productive and meaningful work without fatigue, justly and generously compensated and advanced, with wonderful co-workers and the perfect Boss.

[CEO]

Hi

Heaven;  To experience the glory of bringing others to salvation, the friendship, the bonding, the sharing of the  spirit, the aha! now I get it moments of reveling in and loving the truth.

Askseeknock

Charles O

[onelovedread]

To experience the glory of bringing others to salvation

Wow! How does one do that?

[Patric]

I like what it says in Romans in chapter  and in Corinthians about Heaven .....I groan.....and I know we will be in a Spiritual body....

[se7en]

"chubby-cheeked cherubs strumming their little harps"  and "endless mountains of chocolate and candy"

Are my absolute favorite "Heaven" descriptions

I mean come ooown, who doesn't love chubby-cheeked cherubs and endless chocolaty mountains!  hahaha

[Rhys 🕊]

"chubby-cheeked cherubs strumming their little harps"  and "endless mountains of chocolate and candy"

Are my absolute favorite "Heaven" descriptions

I mean come ooown, who doesn't love chubby-cheeked cherubs and endless chocolaty mountains!  hahaha

Huh?? You mean that's not true. And I love cherubs especially with harps. 

Rhys

[se7en]

Haha, you are correct Rhys, I was being sarcastic.

[ez2u]

well  when you lose someone you love  your spouse or child  sometimes  its all you can do to go through that day.. Its torture the pain.  so thinking that you will see them again in Heaven is a comfort a salve to your soul that is crying.  I am so happy Jesus is LOrd when Jesus takes away  he gives so much more back.  His life

[indianabob]

And we will see them again in the resurrection, in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus, in the age to come, here on this earth, here in the garden of paradise that our Lord will create once again for our contentment.

...your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:10

[ez2u]

that is a good

[loretta]

Since coming to BT, this is one matter that has bothered me.  What really does happen after we die.  Ray taught that our spirits return to God for safekeeping until the resurrection and our bodies sleep in the dust, knowing nothing.  But how comforting is the thought, or rather the Word, if it be true?  Personally, I like heaven, cherub, harps and all.

My neighbor passed away recently. My six year old called her chocolate aunty.  So I told her that chocolate aunty had died, she'd been sick awhile.  My daughter looked sad, then asked, 'what will she do with her house, will she never come alive?  She will, I replied.  When? When Jesus comes back.  When will that be? Soon, I smiled. She seemed to have no problem accepting the truth.  Perhaps that's why Jesus said we ought to be like little children if we are to inherit the Kingdom. 

I think that if our understanding of the Word is true, it will comfort.  Jesus is our comforter and He is the Word.

[Dave in Tenn]

Loretta, it IS a comfort to understand death.  Scripture likens it to 'sleep'.  Think about it...if the dead know nothing, then the last thing we know in life is LIFE...even if that life was diseased, or about to suffer some grave injury, or about to die in some other way.  The next thing we KNOW is LIFE again.  Even your little girl can understand that.  What difference does it make to the dead if they 'sleep' for a few days or a greatly long time?  We go from LIFE to LIFE.  It's not just those who are alive and remain that will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. 

Now, I'm not about to go picket funerals or pass out fliers of Rays' paper A Comforting Thought About Death.  But the truth of the matter IS comforting...and most especially for those whose hearts are full of fear about Hell and eternal separation.  I'll gladly give up visions of fluffy clouds and cherubs to spare them even the remotest pain of religious certainty or doubt that their loved ones are eternally without hope. 

[loretta]

But the truth of the matter IS comforting...and most especially for those whose hearts are full of fear about Hell and eternal separation.  I'll gladly give up visions of fluffy clouds and cherubs to spare them even the remotest pain of religious certainty or doubt that their loved ones are eternally without hope.

You're right Dave.  If we were to believe in heaven, then there must be hell too.  Fear of hell and eternal separation keeps us from having a relationship with God as we attempt to navigate our own way, ostensibly away from hell and eternal punishment.  The Catholics have their sacraments, the Protestants and Evangelicals think they're born again and headed straight to heaven, the Hindus have reincarnation, the Muslims have the holy jihad...

So we must teach the truth as it has been revealed to us.

[dodrill]

This is comforting for those who are left bereft after death - but for the person dying - it scares me - to just be switched off? Not an easy pill to swallow - yes its our spirit that God breathed into us that gives us being that goes back to Him - that is a joy - but to be switched off or not to wake up - who wants to cease being? maybe this why these pagan theories were so popular

[Dave in Tenn]

That's why the question in scripture isn't "where do I live/go when I die?" but "If a man die, shall he live again?"  Paul preached Resurrection--Christ's and ours--and that was the crux of what caused some to scoff, some to desire to "hear more" and some to believe.

In the many years between church and BT, I entertained all sorts of imaginings about what life after death would be.  I couldn't list all the 'thoughts' I had, from heaven and hell to the end of existence/being "switched off".  The one I never considered, however, was the one taught in Scripture.  And that's the one that brings me comfort.  I'm at something of a disadvantage because I don't have any kids, but I'm pretty sure I could explain the truth for young ears that would be 'good news'.  It's only grown-ups who need the fairy tales, I think.   

[dodrill]

That is why our only hope is the Resurrection - thanks Dave
When we are alive and well it is easy to remember - but I think when that time comes for each of us there is fear and trepidation
I've held a loved ones hand when his last breathe left his body - it is surreal

[Dave in Tenn]

Ladies, please forgive me if I come across too preachy or as a religious hobbyist loving to debate doctrine.  I don't love these truths because they make me right and everybody else wrong, and certainly not because I'm better.  I love them because they themselves are better.  I had a heart attack in my mid 40's which came awfully close to killing me, and spent a good number of months fearing every time I went to sleep I would wake up dead.     I've grappled with these questions not from a philosophical or theological standpoint, but as someone who felt he was about to find out for himself.  Every thought was confusion until I just believed what He said. 

As I said, I don't want to picket funerals and I'm not against ANY thing that brings a comforting thought to people in distress.  A couple of shots of vodka will do a man good too.  I know that God is in control and all ends well, even if they don't.  But I don't know any better than anybody else what 'awaits' us.  I just know I'm going to be disappointed if it gets boring after a while or doesn't exceed in goodness the evil that preceded it.

Back to my cave.           

[dodrill]

Thanks Dave - sorry if I added my objections - who are we to complain - like it says death and taxes - everybody owes
I speak as a fool I know - but I am only starting to understand LOVE and I am still afraid of dying or is that paying

Thanks Dave - your honesty is beautiful
and scripture is true - I think its me that needs a cave