bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Who is Cains father?  (Read 4784 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

wisdom

  • Guest
Who is Cains father?
« on: June 18, 2013, 06:44:35 PM »

Hello brothers and sisters, while on my way to work I heard a preacher say that Adam is not Cains father basicly because he's not mentioned in his genealogy? Don't have time to check yet on my way to work can someone please give their insight on this topic.
Logged

loretta

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 04:09:00 AM »

I never did doubt Cain's paternity or the literacy of the early Genesis stories.  Not till now, anyways. 
Well, ok, I guess the two trees in the garden, the serpent and the apple, all have spiritual implications, but surely the creation account is literal?

And talking about Cains' paternity, look what I found. "Links not allowed" (per rules "Links are not allowed if a site or article brings its own teaching or preaching." Hope you understand, you may pm if anyone is interested in the link~Craig)

I've only finished reading Part One, but I think the study deserves a read.  I also think that the author has the two witnesses to confirm his revelation (although I'm not qualified to decide so, just yet)  There is the expected confusion about hell/eternity which we will have to concede here and rewrite it as we know the truth.  I am trying to tie this revelation in with what Ray wrote about the two seeds. 

A note of caution though, this paper is not for the spiritually immature or victorian prude! :)  As a catholic teenager, I recall it being said that the activity in the garden related to sexual sin rather than simple disobedience.  However, it was soundly dismissed as it would result in sex, as God designed it being labelled as sinful.  Even this did not prepare me for what I would read in this paper!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 08:12:03 AM by Craig »
Logged

loretta

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 02:46:42 AM »

Tks Craig.  Guess I overshot myself. Apologies, once again.
Logged

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 03:16:02 PM »

I can't help but laugh at this. I also can't imagine where the idea came from.. but then again, this is christianity we are talking about.

Are the nephalem a cross between humans and angels also?

Sorry, I couldn't resist! ;)
Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

loretta

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 02:29:19 AM »

Quote
I can't help but laugh at this. I also can't imagine where the idea came from.. but then again, this is christianity we are talking about.

You mean to say that the activity in the Garden is literal?  I thought that John from Kentucky was suggesting otherwise.(?)  Am I missing something here?
Logged

hummer

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 02:59:13 AM »

christiandom (the serpent) is the [Great Deceiver]

Hummer
Logged

loretta

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 04:53:51 AM »

I just found Ray's teaching on the Sin of Adam and Eve.  Ray writes

Quote
There is no knowledge of good without a knowledge of evil! That is WHY God put both good AND evil IN THE SAME TREE; IN THE SAME FRUIT.!!

My question then is, Why did God forbide them from eating the fruit?
Logged

cheekie3

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
  • Joshua 1:8
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 05:13:15 AM »

Wisdom -

The Author you refer to in his Part 1, 2 and 3 states and believes in Lucifer who rebelled against God and was changed to Satan, and that Spirit Beings like Angels and the Devil have sexual organs - when the Scriptures state that they do not.

He makes his evaluations of his revelation based on these false Doctrines; and I have found no Scriptural evidence to support his beliefs; and he appears to be suggesting that the Devil is almost on par to the Almighty - whereas the Scriptures show the boundaries of Satan in the Book of Job.

George.
Logged
The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 10:31:42 AM »

I just found Ray's teaching on the Sin of Adam and Eve.  Ray writes

Quote
There is no knowledge of good without a knowledge of evil! That is WHY God put both good AND evil IN THE SAME TREE; IN THE SAME FRUIT.!!

My question then is, Why did God forbide them from eating the fruit?

Hi loretta, there is much evil in this world and with a carnal human nature we do/must partake in it. But we need the "experience in evil" (Ecc 1:13) to learn and understand from first hand experience about these consequences. Yes He has designed us where we are too weak and can not resist sin.

Jer 17:9  "The heart is deceitful above all things,
       And desperately wicked;
       Who can know it?

We know that God is sovereign and responsible for all things, including our carnal human nature, which brings about dire consequences for us, because of our sin. God, knowing the end from the beginning, does warn us of these consequences for our sins. The Scripture show He has always warned people of the consequences of their sin.

Jer 35:15  I have also sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, "Turn now everyone from his evil way, amend your doings, and do not go after other gods to serve them; then you will dwell in the land which I have given you and your fathers.' But you have not inclined your ear, nor obeyed Me.

Indeed God provided the commandments and laws to show us sin... has a single person (besides Jesus Christ) ever obey them completely? Of course not, we can't, we are carnal, so we do sin.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is this life we all must live, and just as God warned Adam and Eve of sin, He gave His commandments to warn us all.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 02:20:05 PM »

Quote
I can't help but laugh at this. I also can't imagine where the idea came from.. but then again, this is christianity we are talking about.

You mean to say that the activity in the Garden is literal?  I thought that John from Kentucky was suggesting otherwise.(?)  Am I missing something here?

John and I see this differeny.

As corinthians states; "albeit that which is first was not spiritual but natu ral and afterwards that which is spiritual."

And


"All these things happened unto them for our esample."

So I believe that the old testament, unless explicitaley stated as in revalation through language such as "symbolized,"  was first a historical account of events and afterwords holding deeper spiritual meaning. As in many things biblical, if all you see is the literal than you're missing so much more.

Besides, ray expounded on the book of genesis and other old testament books and shows that the story of creation as described in genesis is very consisted with the scientific record such as; "the earth brough forth the shrubs" etc. ..

Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 05:42:11 PM »

Quote
I can't help but laugh at this. I also can't imagine where the idea came from.. but then again, this is christianity we are talking about.

You mean to say that the activity in the Garden is literal?  I thought that John from Kentucky was suggesting otherwise.(?)  Am I missing something here?

John and I see this differeny.

As corinthians states; "albeit that which is first was not spiritual but natu ral and afterwards that which is spiritual."

And


"All these things happened unto them for our esample."

So I believe that the old testament, unless explicitaley stated as in revalation through language such as "symbolized,"  was first a historical account of events and afterwords holding deeper spiritual meaning. As in many things biblical, if all you see is the literal than you're missing so much more.

Besides, ray expounded on the book of genesis and other old testament books and shows that the story of creation as described in genesis is very consisted with the scientific record such as; "the earth brough forth the shrubs" etc. ..


Here is an email where Ray stated he didn't think the serpent in the garden was literal.  I agree


Re: The Serpent from LOF
on: August 28, 2007, 01:15:33 PM

The whole section entitled "WHENCE SATAN THE DEVIL?" is very good, I'm just stuck on this thought of Satan was/is a serpent as also referenced in II Cor. 11:3

http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html - almost halfway down.

Is this really describing something physical? 

[Ray's reply]

Satan is a spirit being, seeing that he has been around for thousands of years. He is called a devil, serpent/snake, dragon, etc. We are not exactly sure what a dragon looks like, but supposedly it is in the reptile family as are snakes.
Nowhere that I can think of, did Satan ever appear visibly to anyone. Therefore his serpent/dragon qualities (or lack thereof) must be spiritual. Satan is a SPIRITUAL SNAKE. He has the secret, stealth qualities of a snake moving unseen in the dark. Although he is "like" [in certain characteristics] a roaring lion, he is not a lion, but "as" a lion he goes about seeking whom he may devour [Gk: 'swallow up' as in 'swallow a camel']. Spiritually devour/swallow.

So, did Eve talk with a literal, physical, snake, face to face, in the garden? I don't think so.

God be with you all,

Ray



Ray also taught that the seven days of creation were not literal 24 hour days, but the word day (Hebrew Yom) represented thousands of years, or a very long time period.  I agree.

Ray also taught that the Flood did not cover the entire Earth.  But that the Flood was a local event.  The Hebrew word for Earth (erets) could also be translated as 'land' or 'country'.  I agree.

In my opinion, there was not a literal serpent that walked and spoke with Eve.  That the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was a literal tree.  That the Tree of Life, if you ate of its fruit you would live forever, was a literal tree.  That there was a literal flaming sword guarding the Tree of Life.  Adam is the Hebrew name for all humanity or mankind (check a concordance).  Etc., etc., on and on we could go.

I don't want to argue the issue, and it is O.K. with me if some people think all scriptural stories are literally true.

The most important purpose of the Scriptures is to teach us Spiritual Truths, whether or not one believes the underlying story or event is literally true or symbolic.



I still disagree with you john and for good reasons.

First and foremost, believing the flood was a global event as opposed to local has nothing to do with seeing the old testament as historical or literal but rather due to a mistranslated and misundersood word. That word "earth," meaning landmass as opposed to earth as in world. So the flood still happened historically as recorded in genesis.

Secondly, while satan may not have become a literally talking snake, it does not follow that he did not lead eve to disobey God. I don't believe for one minute that Ray doesnt believe genesis to be a historical event.

Lastly, while "yom" may not mean a 24 hour day, it certainly is a chronological marker of events which occurred sequentially for our knowing in genesis.

In my opinion, based on my understandings, I believe the garden was a real literal place and that adam and eve were historical people that lived sometime ago. There is zero indication to believe genesis is not a historical record of actual events. It is very much a natural shadow of a spiritual reality. The spiritual being the more important of the two. Your example of Adam being the word for humanity is a perfect example of the deeper spiritual meaning behind the Words of God and I will not argue this. I believe this too; but to say that these events were also not historical is either dishonest or ignorant.

Besides, God can do anything. Is it so far fetched to believe he gave satan the ability to appear to eve as a serpent? After all, God did turn himself into a burning bush for moses.

Kindly,

Alex 

Edit: For spelling, original response was done on my phone which lead to a lot of miss spellings.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 06:37:40 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

G. Driggs

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 09:12:42 PM »

Hi Loretta,

It is God's intention for us to go against His will for a time. No one has ever gone against His intention.

Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will (Greek: Intention)?

Logged

G. Driggs

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 09:29:57 PM »

Wisdom,

Consider the following.

1Ti 1:4  Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4141
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 09:31:38 PM »

Quote
Hi Loretta,

It is God's intention for us to go against His will for a time. No one has ever gone against His intention.

Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will (Greek: Intention)?

To add to G. Driggs post:

Rom 8:18  For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory about to be revealed in us;
Rom 8:19  for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
Rom 8:20  for to vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it --in hope,
Rom 8:21  that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
Rom 8:22  for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now.







 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 09:41:35 PM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 11:06:24 PM »

Alex,

You wrote, "but to say that these events were also not historical is either dishonest or ignorant."

Well, if my only two choices are being either dishonest or ignorant, I guess I'll settle for being ignorant.   ;D ;D ;D

John

John, you know I consider you a brother and your posts are very often thought provoking and filled with wisdom.

We are in complete agreement as to the spiritual importance of the old testament and I know we have the same mind on many scriptural matters.

I have simply chosen to be more open to the idea that the old testatement can be a historical record of events as well as a spiritual book.

Besides, being ignorant isn't a bad thing. I am ignorant to many things. It happens and simply is a state of not knowing. It was my opinion and Lord only knows, you could be entirely right! Maybe Adam and Eve never walked the earth and the garden is simply allegory.

With love,

Alex

Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

loretta

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 05:54:33 AM »

Tks ALL for sharing your personal insights and wisdom.  I can't honestly say that I understand everything, but I'm getting there.  On some matters, yeah, its ok to be ignorant. 

Quote
The Author you refer to in his Part 1, 2 and 3 states and believes in Lucifer who rebelled against God and was changed to Satan, and that Spirit Beings like Angels and the Devil have sexual organs - when the Scriptures state that they do not.

It was I who referenced this author, George.  Tks for clarifying - it settles the matter! :)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 06:03:39 AM by loretta »
Logged

dave

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 10:29:19 AM »

Quote
I can't help but laugh at this. I also can't imagine where the idea came from.. but then again, this is christianity we are talking about.

You mean to say that the activity in the Garden is literal?  I thought that John from Kentucky was suggesting otherwise.(?)  Am I missing something here?

Hi Loretta,

I believe the creation stories are true and they contain great and profound spiritual truths.

I do not believe they are literal.

However, that is just my opinion.  I do not speak on behalf of the Forum or anyone else.

John
:)
Logged

dave

  • Guest
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 10:33:10 AM »

Alex,

You wrote, "but to say that these events were also not historical is either dishonest or ignorant."

Well, if my only two choices are being either dishonest or ignorant, I guess I'll settle for being ignorant.   ;D ;D ;D

John

Amen! :)
Logged

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Who is Cains father?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2013, 11:42:31 AM »

Dear friend Loretta,
Please send me the link to the information you referenced with "look what I found" and that Moderator Craig erased from your message, I think??

I am interested in checking for myself. Thanks, Indiana Bob
bob.breyfogle@gmail.com


I never did doubt Cain's paternity or the literacy of the early Genesis stories.  Not till now, anyways. 
Well, ok, I guess the two trees in the garden, the serpent and the apple, all have spiritual implications, but surely the creation account is literal?

And talking about Cains' paternity, look what I found. "Links not allowed" (per rules "Links are not allowed if a site or article brings its own teaching or preaching." Hope you understand, you may pm if anyone is interested in the link~Craig)

I've only finished reading Part One, but I think the study deserves a read.  I also think that the author has the two witnesses to confirm his revelation (although I'm not qualified to decide so, just yet)  There is the expected confusion about hell/eternity which we will have to concede here and rewrite it as we know the truth.  I am trying to tie this revelation in with what Ray wrote about the two seeds. 

A note of caution though, this paper is not for the spiritually immature or victorian prude! :)  As a catholic teenager, I recall it being said that the activity in the garden related to sexual sin rather than simple disobedience.  However, it was soundly dismissed as it would result in sex, as God designed it being labelled as sinful.  Even this did not prepare me for what I would read in this paper!
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.06 seconds with 27 queries.