I have already been barred from buying and selling recently

[G. Driggs]

Hudson and Dave I think your both right.

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html

MANY WATERS

"Mystery Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth"

sits upon "many waters" we are told in Rev. 17:1. Anciently God also referred to the nation of Babylon as, "O thou that dwells upon MANY WATERS..." (Jer. 51:13). And these many waters are explained in Rev. 17:15 as:

"The WATERS which you saw, where the whore sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

Since all of Revelation is symbolic and metaphorical language, the "sea" represents the vast sea of humanity, not the watery oceans of our planet. It is fitting that if ancient Babylon dwelled upon "many waters" that the end-time Mystery Babylon would also sit upon "waters" which are clearly defined as "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

And just where are we told that the beast that carries the great whore comes from?

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a [wild] beast rise up OUT OF THE SEA [the vast sea of humanity]" (Rev. 13:1).

The whore is a great church, and it sits on a wild beast (a great political system), and John, "...saw a wild beast rise up OUT OF THE SEA (Rev. 13:1). This beast does not rise up out of one particular sea, that is one particular nation or people or multitude or tongue, but out of ALL OF THEM.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Reason I responded to this was cause I used to wonder who the other beast was.

Thanks guys great replies.

[Shawn Fainn]

I wasn't referring to the beast in us, Dave. But rather a 'beast' in a collective sense where man desires control over other men. Are you saying a desire to be free (or against) such systems is part of the beast in us?

[Dave in Tenn]

Not exactly.  But I don't think getting entangled--even in opposition--with the world is being free from either this 'collective' beast or the one in/as us who wants to control things or people.

Ray said disciples shouldn't be "marching on Washington".  That was hard for me to hear, because I tend to admire (at least some) people who "march on Washington" and would have been there myself if I could have been.  But stepping back, "marching on Washington" means choosing sides in a debate where deep down both (even ALL) sides are 'wrong'.  There is a more excellent way.

All my life up even to today I've heard people quoting Eph 6:12  "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." and interpreting it to mean "we wrestle against flesh and blood in high places, flesh and blood principalities, flesh and blood powers, flesh and blood rulers of the darkness of this world". 

That scripture could just as well have ended with "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood." because that NOT covers everything that follows.  None of it is flesh and blood.  "Places" isn't even in Scripture.  The thought ends with 'high', 'celestial', 'heavenly'.  Where is the 'heaven' that Ray talks about?
 
2Co 10:3-6  For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) (what strongholds?) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

That's the "beast" I'm concerned with.

That's probably more of a reply than you or anybody else wanted, but there it is.   
   

[indianabob]

No! No! Dave, actually that is exactly what I needed.
This training period is not about training others.
Not about correcting disbelief in others.
Rather it is about our individual training through the operation of God's spirit in us.
It is about sharing with those of like mind, those God has already called who are seeking us and we them.
Thanks for caring and sharing.

Indiana Bob

[Dennis Vogel]

No! No! Dave, actually that is exactly what I needed.
This training period is not about training others.
Not about correcting disbelief in others.
Rather it is about our individual training through the operation of God's spirit in us.
It is about sharing with those of like mind, those God has already called who are seeking us and we them.
Thanks for caring and sharing.

Indiana Bob

[onelovedread]

You guys Rock! I've been blessed. Thank you

[Avidfisher]

I think the number of his name is meant to say, the great number(multitudes) and 666 is a misrepresentation of that great number of people, a number of people showed up for the event, and its number was 666 if you will.

[microlink]

Very good comments from Kat and Dennis. I am sure there is much more to learn about buying and selling and the mark of the beast. This just motivates me more to dig deeper into Scripture and follow Ray's train of thought. Good subject. Much to think about.
Joe from Ottawa

[Avidfisher]

I am glad to be in the few with this line of thought and post.

[Patric]

6 6 6 = work work work or me me me and I I I
get it?
well maybe not.
For It is the a human number.....representing mans failed attempts with work after work after work and faith hope and love come from God in contrast.....or perfection from our Father. Man fails short time after time after time but the Father is 7 perfection and man falls 1 short as a beast. Our God is 1

Inspired by Ray's writings on the subject.....many years of no clue.....some foolishness by a preacher and Revelation's the book.

[Avidfisher]

A just man falls 7 times, from all the worlds 7churches doctrines, so falling away from 7 is the road to perfection, not the number 7 as perfection.

[Patric]

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7638.0.html

[Avidfisher]

Ray said-->"Seven" in Scripture can mean complete or perfect, but it also has a similar meaning to the number 1000, which can mean "as many as there are or as long as is necessary."  I say--->Sometimes it takes 1000  times to fall away from seven mistakes.