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King David
indianabob:
Thanks Kat,
Well said and helpful.
Indiana Bob
gerard_dsouza:
Thanks Kat. This is good. Makes sense.
So then the period could also be a literal 1000 years.
Do you think the second resurrection takes place after the 1000 years or before if we remove verse 5 from scripture?
Kat:
Hi Gerry,
--- Quote ---So then the period could also be a literal 1000 years.
--- End quote ---
The 1000 yrs is a symbolic number, just like when God said all cattle are His on a 1000 hills. Certainly He did not mean just a 1000 hills.
Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills.
--- Quote ---Do you think the second resurrection takes place after the 1000 years or before if we remove verse 5 from scripture?
--- End quote ---
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
v. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
v. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with Him for a thousand years.
In verse 4 the elect "reign with Christ for 1000 yrs." Now next it does go on to sum it up and to speaks of the end of the 1000 yrs ad the release of Satan and then his eventual being cast into the lake of fire. But this whole chapter does not go in chronological order, because down in verse 12 we go back to the resurrection of "the dead" from the greatest to the smallest stand before the throne of Christ and that indicates ALL the dead to me.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. From His presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
v. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
v. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
v. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
v. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So you can see in verse 15 that those that are not in the Book of Life-Jesus Christ, therefore not in the first resurrection to life, are thrown into the lake of fire to be judged, purged and cleansed of their wickedness. The judgment in the lake of fire is the reign of Christ and the elect for everyone not in the Book of Life. You can also see the order/sequence of resurrection is to bring the just to life and the unjust to condemnation when Christ returns.
Act 24:15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
John 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Also Matt 25 shows at the resurrection "ALL the nations will be gathered before Him."
Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (eonian) fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
The only place that I can find any indication that the dead do not raise until after the 1000 yrs is the spurious part of Rev. 20:5. All the other Scripture seem to point to the first resurrection of the elect to join Christ, followed by the resurrection of the rest of the dead, that begins the reign of Christ and the elect to rule the whole world.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
gerard_dsouza:
Thanks Kat. That makes more sense than what others talk about when they include the verse 5 first part of Rev 20.
In your understanding of Ray teaching. I know he talks about all who are truly saved will be in the first resurrection. The called and chosen.
What about the called who were not chosen, can they be those whose name is written in the book of life and they go through the lake of fire in a milder form of judgement as compared to others. Any opinions on that.
Kat:
Hi Gerry,
This world holds a wide variety of personalities and the circumstances of each life gives even more diversity and there is nothing hidden from Him.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Though all are deceived and there is no real goodness in any of us, He know each of our lives exactly as we truly are. Most of the Human race do not 'know' Jesus Christ, OT and NT times. Those in the OT never knew of Jesus Christ, because before He lived on earth in the flesh there was no Jesus, just the Son of God. So all those that came before Christ lived, though some died in faith, must wait for the second resurrection. Heb 11 shows many from the OT that died in faith, but will not be in the first resurrection. They must wait for Christ to return and appear to them and then through the elect be made/brought to perfection.
Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
v. 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
Now in the NT times there are no doubt people of faith that are not of the elect, yes they are worldly and carnal, but not all are devious and wicked, and all will give account for whatever they are.
1Cor 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
v. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
v. 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
So there could be rewards for some, but all will have to go through the fire of judgement, the patriarchs of old, the prophets and even John the Baptist as well. Though I just cannot imagine that those just mentioned will receive serious punishment, correction yes and they do need to be taught about the sacrifice of Christ. They and any who did not have the Spirit indwelling will be judged and purged of their carnality, precisely down to the most minute degree for what each individual needs and deserves.
And there will also be babies and children raised up, they will not be punished, but raised and guided towards righteousness. I do believe that God's judgments will be just for everybody, setting right every injustices that any person has endured. All will be dealt with individually, with firmness or gentleness just as they need or deserve, "few stripes... many stripes" (Luke 12:47-48).
Of course there will be hardened criminals and people so wicked it's hard to imagine, these will be raised up and will be shown a harsh God of wrath to turn them from their evil and vile nature. Even there He most certainly will use different methods that best suit the differing personalities.
I guess it's impossible to figure the specifics, as the judgments will be as diverse as the personalities are different. But I hope you understand what I'm trying to get across.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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