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Author Topic: Discussion concerning sickness  (Read 6358 times)

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se7en

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Discussion concerning sickness
« on: July 12, 2013, 02:35:34 PM »

My wife said she got the opportunity to witness to our next door neighbor the other day.

our next door neighbor said she overheard my wife talking to someone else, this other person had made a passing comment....

"Well, God put this sickness on me so I just need to go through it". (there are some doctrinal church groups that teach this but then turn around and teach "free will")

After this other person left, my next door neighbor asked my wife "Did you hear what she said? God put a sickness on her! What do you believe concerning that? Is that true?"

And like a "good christian" my wife explained to my neighbor that God doesn't make anyone sick, that Jesus came to heal us... etc. etc..  and my neighbor's reply was "oh, okay, good, that makes sense."

Now that is typical of your average man made doctrinal beliefs. In the recent past I would have told my wife "You know that God is in control of everything" but I didn't...

Instead I said "wow, that's interesting that our neighbor asked you that question."

My wife knows what I believe. After we had that discussion, my wife said "Thank you for not correcting me".

I'm learning.... gentleness, patience, kindness... I did not have to correct her or say anything because I've established where I stand so many times before.

If my neighbor would have asked me that question, I would have told her the truth..... But God did not cause that to happen. I'm learning to be gentle and humble when speaking God's truth. I know what it's like to accept the Truth... it kills us in the process. The heaven's get shaken. Some people are not ready to handle Truth. Wow, it took me 15 years in babylon to finally prepare me to hear the Truth... He has us all at different points in the "making into His image" process. I trust God to bring to me the people that need to hear the truth, when He has made them ready. I will be ready to give an account when someone asks.

I write this just to fellowship, I know you guys have been through similar situations :)
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~Se7en

microlink

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 02:43:04 PM »

Hi and a fine e-mail.
Yes - been there done that as the expression goes.
Sure appreciate your comments on coming out of Babylon and learning humbleness and kindness.
When we need to give a ready answer to those who ask in sincerity about God and His Truth, God will give us the wisdom on how to respond.
God Bless.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 07:06:18 PM »

consider yourself fellowshipped.   ;D
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

ez2u

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 09:07:32 AM »

thanks Mic  for sharing this.  I believe its a part of the fruit of the Spirit, long suffering?  going a long with patience.  I have been thinking about this too as I am in such a similar situation with a husband who said the 15 second pray and lives like h...  It has been an interesting fire.  I have a lot of growing to do in Christ.  but... not to be so morbid.  my heart knows His love for me I know He loves me and that is a great Joy.  Living with someone who doesn't share the knowledge and passion that I understand is difficult at times.  Probably most of us are in the same boat here.
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Wonone

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2013, 10:42:35 PM »

Thanks for sharing Se7en!
There is something about 'live' example that communicates so well. Plus, it is indeed 'fellowship'!
And, yes, it takes years to get out of Babylon.
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loretta

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2013, 02:51:37 PM »

Nice sharing se7en.

Thinking about it, I would have replied the same as your wife, even though I am coming to know the truth.  Often, we tell people what they like to hear. :(

Today, I lost a friend to cancer, a mother of twin teen girls.  The third person (all professing Christians) in as many months, all to cancer, the youngest all of 30 years.  We had all been praying, believing, trusting and hoping for a cure.  If it weren't for BT, I would have been crushed.  But now I know that they are asleep and will rise in the resurrection. First or second, who am I to judge?

I don't know what to believe about sickness anymore.  I just know that it is His sovereign will whether or not we will be healed.  And there's nothing we can do about it.  There was a time I confidently spouted healing scriptures and handed out books on divine healing and health.  Now I am not so sure.  I am not so sure what I'd do if I or someone I loved were diagnosed with a terminal illness.  I know that God is teaching me something here. ?

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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2013, 03:12:53 PM »

Ecc 9:11  I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Ecc 9:12  For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2013, 05:41:52 PM »

Two more come to mind:

Rom 9:21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
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gregorydc

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 07:19:44 PM »

Thank you Denis, those are helpful. :) 
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se7en

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2013, 01:36:37 PM »

loretta,

I know what you mean. In times past, I would have answered just like my wife and then spouted healing scriptures at the person. However, knowing what I know now, I couldn't do that anymore. And this is why this example was so cool to me and what God caused me to see was that... I was right inside the house when my neghbor asked my wife this question. I was out of earshot but could have easily walked by, but the Lord didn't cause that to happen. She wasn't ready to handle a meatier truth that I would have given. It just wasn't the right time for her yet.

God is working ALL after the council of His own will.

Isa 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

So the Lord has revealed to us that when we are afflicted, for what ever the length of time, even if we are born blind or if we remain infirmed for over 38 years, or are lame for over forty years, it is all worked by God so that in the end the Lord can cure all men of all time of all diseases, in His time and on His schedule.

Exo 4:11  And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

So taking Exo 4:11 and the other scriptures above into account, look at the below scriptures...

Joh 5:5  And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.

Joh 9:1  And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

Joh 9:2  And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3  Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Act 3:1  Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act 3:2  And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
Act 3:3  Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
Act 3:4  And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
Act 3:5  And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
Act 3:6  Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Act 3:7  And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
Act 3:8  And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
Act 3:9  And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
Act 3:10  And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.

Act 4:22  For the man was above forty years old,on whom this miracle of healing was shewed.

Paul preached with an "infirmity of the flesh".

Gal 4:13  Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

We are told that "this thing [this] thorn in th flesh [is] my infirmities", and Paul tells us that He "took pleasure in [his] infirmities... for when I am weak then am I strong".

So all afflictions, as with all other things are a work of God.

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

We fervently pray and ask God to heal others, and we should do that. But when our prayers for healings are not granted, we accept with continued gratitude the way and method God is using in dealing with all men.

Psa 107:21  Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!
Psa 107:22  And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing.

It's all His works! And we are Jesus Christ's most grandest achievement!

If my neighbor would have asked me that question instead of my wife, that's pretty much what I would talk about and point her to those scriptures. But I don't think she could have handled that answer, which is why God caused her to ask my wife. But before I could have told her this, she would have to understand that God is in the process of saving all mankind.

Most of babylon believes that God is going to burn the literal skin off of people in a eternal torture chamber and they can't get past the idea that God would cause a sickness upon someone, cause them to die from it, then burn them for eternity.. So before you explained to people about God's total sovereignty, they would want to understand that God is in the process of saving all of humankind and that cancer (or whatever sickness) has a part to play in all of it.

loretta I hope this helps you understand about sickness and the reason for it a little better. :)
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~Se7en

Kat

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2013, 02:39:55 PM »


Hi se7en,

Quote
If my neighbor would have asked me that question instead of my wife, that's pretty much what I would talk about and point her to those scriptures. But I don't think she could have handled that answer, which is why God caused her to ask my wife. But before I could have told her this, she would have to understand that God is in the process of saving all mankind.

Yes what I have come to see is that we all have a belief system built up of ideas we have gained that we think are true. So in Christendom they have built a huge wall of beliefs brick by brick and it all holds together one false belief upon another. Our ideas of truth does not fit in their wall of beliefs, it doesn't make sense with the rest of what they have, so they reject it outright.

Now when somebody does want to consider a truth, then there comes the tedious task of tearing down the old/wrong understanding to make room for the new/right way of thinking. But we all can attest that it can be done, but it is a life long process. Sometimes I think people begin to see all the work it takes (study, pray, meditation) to tear down and rebuild and they give up... it is so easy just to go along with everybody else.


Loretta, God has given us a very strong desire to survive and we fight to continue in this life with all we have. Which I guess is needful or I suppose we might have a high suicide rate and God knows we need this experience in evil as a foundation or backdrop. But I have come to recognize death as really a passage for people from this life to the next and yes there is that sleep where we all have to wait for resurrection, but the dead are at peace.

I think we tend to look on death with woe and fear, yes it is sad to lose a loved one, but we do not have to fear they are suffering some grisly fate beyond the grave. They are dead and will not have to suffer anything else in this wicked age.

Maybe it more to do with watching a person die from disease or injury and wonder why they have to suffer so much... we do not know what God is working in that person. And I know people will say, well what about a child's untimely death or suffering? Will the riches of the next life make up for the suffering of the innocent in this life? Maybe it will, certainly God is able to do so.

God in His mercy has created our lives to have limits to what we can bear. Our bodies can survive a great deal, but at a certain point we will die and cease suffering. I mean God could have designed our bodies so they could bear much more or maybe lived a certain amount of time no matter what. He has great wisdom in the way that He is doing things and one day we will understand that better I think. In time all perceived injustices will be righted, I have no doubt about that.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
 
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microlink

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2013, 03:08:59 PM »

Death - yes a thing we think about more and more as we get older. I am thankful that young healthy people do not dwell on death all that much. It could be depressing. When we are young God gives us the mind to not focus on death but on life.
I lost a younger brother to a nasty throat cancer and he suffered a great deal for 1 year. He could not eat or drink during that time and had to feed himself with a solution through his stomach. So very very sad. I believe he took it with as much courage as anyone could hope for. He was a Catholic and believed in the Catholic god. I wept at his funeral but found a deep inner peace knowing Gods plan and he will be resurrected at the white throne and gain immortality.
God be Blessed. And thanks for sharing.
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loretta

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2013, 03:15:22 PM »

Quote
Most of babylon believes that God is going to burn the literal skin off of people in a eternal torture chamber and they can't get past the idea that God would cause a sickness upon someone, cause them to die from it, then burn them for eternity.. So before you explained to people about God's total sovereignty, they would want to understand that God is in the process of saving all of humankind and that cancer (or whatever sickness) has a part to play in all of it.

loretta I hope this helps you understand about sickness and the reason for it a little better.

Oh, yes I do, se7en, tks! :)

Quote
God in His mercy has created our lives to have limits to what we can bear. Our bodies can survive a great deal, but at a certain point we will die and cease suffering. I mean God could have designed our bodies so they could bear much more or maybe lived a certain amount of time no matter what. He has great wisdom in the way that He is doing things and one day we will understand that better I think. In time all perceived injustices will be righted, I have no doubt about that.

tks Kat, for those words of comfort

Quote
God be Blessed. And thanks for sharing.


Amen!
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Nathan

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2013, 05:39:48 PM »

Quote
But before I could have told her this, she would have to understand that God is in the process of saving all mankind.

Most of babylon believes that God is going to burn the literal skin off of people in a eternal torture chamber and they can't get past the idea that God would cause a sickness upon someone, cause them to die from it, then burn them for eternity.. So before you explained to people about God's total sovereignty, they would want to understand that God is in the process of saving all of humankind and that cancer (or whatever sickness) has a part to play in all of it.

So true, se7en. None of this experience of evil, which God created for a purpose, will make any sense to someone unless they first understand the salvation of all and the torture of none. You can never explain the concept of no "free will" to someone without them understanding that all will be saved and none tortured. The same goes for God creating evil (including Satan), making the blind, deaf, etc - it won't make sense until one understands those 2 fundamental truths.

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2013, 12:08:01 AM »

Just to add, some people seem to thrive even IN their "illness" or handicap, while it crushes others.  Is there any value in that example? 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

loretta

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2013, 04:58:10 AM »

Quote
Just to add, some people seem to thrive even IN their "illness" or handicap, while it crushes others.  Is there any value in that example?

Still others are just able to cope in their situation, and that too is the grace of God.

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arion

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2013, 09:25:47 AM »

And to sum it up 'All is of God', if people can understand that one essential truth everything else begins to fall into place.  Walking in that truth brings incredible peace and grace even in the midst of all hell [sic] breaking loose.  Knowing that God is working out his plan which will bring all of his creation to salvation in the ages to come helps us not to sweat the small stuff.
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Rene

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Re: Discussion concerning sickness
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2013, 09:53:42 AM »

And to sum it up 'All is of God', if people can understand that one essential truth everything else begins to fall into place.  Walking in that truth brings incredible peace and grace even in the midst of all hell [sic] breaking loose.  Knowing that God is working out his plan which will bring all of his creation to salvation in the ages to come helps us not to sweat the small stuff.

And prayerfully, not the BIG STUFF either!  ;)

René
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