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Did Jesus become a Curse on the cross?

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Kat:

Hi Loretta,


--- Quote --- are they right about the curses? Or are we all, post the crucifixion, under grace and God's sovereign hand.  The reason I ask, is because often, we look around and see people (not the elect) burdened or afflicted and we conclude that they are under a curse, a generational curse.
--- End quote ---

What is a generational curse? I suppose they get this idea from Scripture such as these.

Exo 20:5  you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Exo 34:7  keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation."

Deu 5:9  you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

As Gerry was saying if a father/parent has a wicked lifestyle, then his children are likely to perpetuate that same behavior problems that they have learned from the parent, therefore you have generational sinning. So these sins brings about generational repercussions.

Psa 7:14  Behold, the wicked brings forth iniquity;
       Yes, he conceives trouble and brings forth falsehood.
v.15  He made a pit and dug it out,
       And has fallen into the ditch which he made.
v. 16  His trouble shall return upon his own head,
       And his violent dealing shall come down on his own crown. 

You see there can develop a vicious cycle from generation after generation of sinful living and the consequences of that and just the same for today. And of course the church always has to find a blame for their sins and problems. But this spoken of in Exodus and Deuteronomy was part of the Old Testament Law, Israel fell into idolatry time and time again and God warned them over and over what would happen.

Jdg 3:7  So the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD. They forgot the LORD their God, and served the Baals and Asherahs.
v.8  Therefore the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and He sold them into the hand of Cushan-Rishathaim king of Mesopotamia; and the children of Israel served Cushan-Rishathaim eight years.

So yes God did promise to visit Israel’s sin upon the third and fourth generations as He knew they would repeat the sins of the fathers... but He also delivered them when they cried out.

Jdg 3:9  When the children of Israel cried out to the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer for the children of Israel, who delivered them:

Even when He announced "visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children" He also followed that up by showing how endless His mercy was as well, for those not doing evil.

Exo 20:6  but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Deu 5:10  but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

gerard_dsouza:
Hi John,
I can assure you I am not interested in bringing false teaching. I been struggling to understand clearly on this matter for some time.
All I stated clearly that Curses are not a thing of the past. It is real. I do not know for sure about generations curse.

The scriptures only states the obvious that the person who sins will die. It is not expounding on curses and its being done away.

As for generation curse: I only mentioned it in the aspect of Father can curse his son or daughter by his words and it can have an impact on the person. Because the Father and Mother are authority on their children. Similarly husbands can curse their wives and that can impact them.

If you are so sure on this, please show me a clear teaching on this. I have no real opinion on this, only that I want to believe what you are saying, if I had my way. But I want to fear God and know if God has a clear word on this and not assume.

John, show me a teaching of Ray on this topic clearly, I searched and I could not find one clearly.
I am no authority on this. I was only sharing a opinion on what I see in scriptures.

Nathan:
Gerry, there are no scriptures that state that a wife or child can be cursed by the behavior of a father or husband. If you look at the scriptures that Kat posted which are constantly taken out of context by the majority of Christendom to prove that there are indeed generational curses, you will see the plain truth of the matter.

Exodus 20:5,6 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation OF THEM THAT HATE ME; And showing mercy unto thousands of THEM THAT LOVE ME, and keep my commandments.

The iniquity visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation are only on those that hate Him, NOT those that love him. A child is not cursed by the actions or behavior of a father and therefore, by default, MUST hate God and be cursed by him. Are children influenced by the behavior of their parents? yes and no - it depends. Are they cursed? NO.

Deu 5:9,10  Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

This scripture is the same as the previous.

Exo 34:6,7

And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means CLEAR THE GUILTY; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

This passage is worded a little differently than the other two, however it has the exact same implications. Our Father is merciful to the "innocent" and only visits iniquity on the guilty. One is not guilty because some curse was handed down to them by their father or father's father. One is guilty only if he or she is guilty of their own accord and not some inherited "generational curse".

gerard_dsouza:
Hi John,
This is what I see operating.
In Proverbs 26:2 the writer of Proverbs makes a very important statement. He says: “Like a flitting sparrow, like a flying swallow, so a curse without cause shall not alight.” In other words, if there’s a curse there’s always a cause.

One incident of a curse on his wife, he did not bless his wife, this showed the impact David had on his wife Michal, by his words, it was fulfilled exactly and Michal was could never get together with David, and also never had children.2 Samuel 6: 20 When David returned home to bless his household, Michal daughter of Saul came out to meet him and said, “How the king of Israel has distinguished himself today, going around half-naked in full view of the slave girls of his servants as any vulgar fellow would!” 21 David said to Michal, “It was before the Lord, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the Lord’s people Israel—I will celebrate before the Lord. 22 I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor.” 23 And Michal daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.

Here is a scripture that shows the blessing of Isaac to Esau, which was not as good as that given to Jacob. This is what came out of Isaac mouth and it impacted his son. It fulfilled the destiny of his son, which was not as great as given to his other son. This shows the authority of the Father.
Gen 27: 38 Esau said to his father, “Do you have only one blessing, my father? Bless me too, my father!” Then Esau wept aloud. 39 His father Isaac answered him, “Your dwelling will be away from the earth’s richness,    away from the dew of heaven above. 40 You will live by the sword and you will serve your brother. But when you grow restless, you will throw his yoke from off your neck.” 41 Esau held a grudge against Jacob because of the blessing his father had given him. He said to himself, “The days of mourning for my father are near; then I will kill my brother Jacob.”

You stated: "The iniquity visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation are only on those that hate Him, NOT those that love him. A child is not cursed by the actions or behavior of a father and therefore, by default, MUST hate God and be cursed by him. Are children influenced by the behavior of their parents? yes and no - it depends. Are they cursed? NO. "

Paul who had some spiritual authority in churches like Corinthians, sent a curse on the person who committed immortality
I Cor 5:  1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Nathan, you stated here: you say iniquities are operating for those who hate him and not those who love him.
I agree to this. Now for us who love the Lord, we can break free from the curses of our Fathers, who are called by God by his will not our own. God has to free us from everything and he has to will and desire that this happens to us. You at same time agree that a curse operates on those who hate him, again this is all because the Lord wants that to be the case. He is sovereign in all this. We don't really have a free will. It looks like we can make choices, but we cannot influence all that is happening against us to disobey God and thus come under a curse. Show me a clear scripture that Christians do not have any curses operating on them at all, and I be glad to receive that truth.
We all are under Grace, not only divine intervention on our heart, but also mercy.

John, having said this, I really am not interested in proving any point here. I showed how curses or impacts that negative in nature are operated by the authority above us.

gerard_dsouza:
Thanks John, now you convinced me. I now see where my error is.
What would be the point for God to give ability to husband to curse their wife and that should work and so with Parents to place curse on children. Curses come from the Lord for disobedience and hating God.
Besides the above scriptures are incidents and not scripture principles as Laws are. So I agree I have no scripture.
So Ezek 18 was trying to correct the very error in understanding of what people are stating. That there are curses being passed on, which come to think about it is not what is stated. Iniquities are visited to children of father's who hate God and not any curses, as the word curses are not stated there.

Nathan you tried making you point and now I see your point. The word generation curse as a statement is never mentioned in scripture.
Its been inferred by Christians by the word visiting iniquities of those who hate the Lord on to their generations.

John, what is the implication of visiting the iniquities on generation down, what is its impact in spiritual basis. Is it the children will have a tendency to fall into same error as their fathers, due to wrong example and wrong guidance? Could you expand on this from your understanding.
 

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