Topic: Through the wormhole (Read 8054 times)

Dave in Tenn · « **on:** July 24, 2013, 09:04:15 PM »

The series on the Science Channel will be 'investigating' free-will tonight. Ought to be interesting. Watch AYOR.

Dennis Vogel · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2013, 10:39:33 PM »

Saw the ad but forgot - Thanks

se7en · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2013, 05:09:01 PM »

Nooooooo!!!! Did I miss it? Is there another episode tonight?

I wonder if you can watch it off their website. Some channels do that for a period of time.

Dave in Tenn · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2013, 05:51:03 PM »

It will certainly play again, maybe next week before the 'new' show. Those channels run re-runs all the time. Don't know if it's available for streaming.

wat · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2013, 07:17:00 PM »

How was it? Anything good? I don't think I have this channel.

Dave in Tenn · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2013, 07:33:22 PM »

As is usual with this show, they 'explored' a number of different viewpoints, and didn't come to any firm conclusions. Seemed to me that with at least some of the viewpoints, they have the same problem 'defining' the term "free-will" accurately--as if someone can accurately define something that doesn't exist. I was watching with one eye and 'seeing' scripture with my other eye.

The last viewpoint expressed was the "moral" one...that even if free-will didn't exist, it was good for humanity to believe in it as the belief itself caused people to behave more responsibly. Me? I'm not sure that 1. This is true, and 2. That this is what the Lord wants in the short-term.

All of the viewpoints were interesting and all seemed to lend scientific credence to free-will being an illusion. The first one was the most interesting to me, but I'd have to watch it again to explain it. Seems our subconscious mind (or maybe it's the unconscious) determines our choices even before we know there is a choice to make...or certainly before our conscious mind makes the choice.

I'm curious if anybody else saw it and what thoughts they had.

Rene · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2013, 07:56:38 PM »

Quote from: Dave in Tenn on July 25, 2013, 07:33:22 PM

I'm curious if anybody else saw it and what thoughts they had.

I stumbled upon this episode last night after it had started. I did not know you had given us a heads up that it was coming on. I watched with a "side eye" because I knew it wasn't going to come to a conclusion based on truth. However, I was intrigued by the attempt of a scientist to prove scientifically that man does not have free will. Ultimately, I got bored and didn't watch the entire episode.

René

cjwood · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2013, 11:05:49 PM »

it was good for humanity to believe in it as the belief itself caused people to behave more responsibly.

dave, your statement above reminded me of something ray wrote about once with regards to the catholic church wanting to control the masses by fear of a hell that did not exist. the world at large is still holding on to the fairy tale myths of so many actual lies. alas, this is All of the Father...

claudia

se7en · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2013, 12:38:41 PM »

Very interesting.

"It was good for humanity to believe in it as the belief itself caused people to behave more responsibly."

I'm like Dave... I'm not too sure that's a true statement.

I mean virtually everyone... EVERYONE believes in "free will". And look at how responsible we act (humankind as a whole).

And Claudia you hit the nail on the head!

Dave in Tenn · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2013, 01:42:50 PM »

To be fair, the 'experiment' did provide evidence that individuals tended to act more responsibly after seeing repeated messages affirming "free-will", and less responsibly after reading messages affirming "determinism", though I didn't see anything in the messages they showed any suggestion of Who is doing the determining. This kind of 'social-science' evidence is not exactly "hard science".

But its not something I've never thought about...to acknowledge a sovereign God in control of everything does seem to leave some people (me included) with a sense of free-fall. Coming to realization made me a little 'crazy' for a while.

se7en · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2013, 02:25:36 PM »

Haha, I went through the same thing Dave.

Hulk inside me was like "What? No free will? HULK SMASH!!!"

Yeup, I think we all have to pass through that to kill that inner beast. That is a biggie... I mean, one of the biggest, if not THE BIGGEST lie we have to pull down. The thought of "I'm not in control and never was in control" makes us feel like we are free falling for a while, but then, it's soooo, sooo comforting once it sinks in.

The love of the universe created me and purposed me, He will not fail, I will do exactly as He purposed me. I trust and rest in that!

cjwood · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2013, 04:26:28 PM »

The love of the universe created me and purposed me, He will not fail, I will do exactly as He purposed me. I trust and rest in that!

what a grand declaration of your love for the Love of Life! such a sweet, sweet thing to say se7en.

claudia

indianabob · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2013, 01:21:45 AM »

Hi folks,
The example that got my attention was when I spoke to a pastor's wife who told me that we had to have the free will to love and honor God, because without that choice our love was not real, not true. In other words, love that is not voluntary is of no real value, it is just an empty pretense.
She also commented about the teaching that God will punish forever those who do not accept God in this life. I inquired about little children and she replied that little children are innocent and that they get a free pass into heaven to be with their parents.

So what about the children of Muslims and Hindus?

They were condemned from before the worlds were made. End of story. WOW

Indianabob

Dave in Tenn · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2013, 01:41:13 AM »

Hi Bob. You could ask her (as Ray said) if she loved her husband for no reason.

indianabob · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2013, 05:31:40 PM »

Good point Dave,

Or you could consider my own situation.
With my wife it was the police uniform.
She followed me around the town square as I checked parking meters and wrote tickets.
What a thrilling remembrance. Ha ha

Pierdut · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2013, 08:15:41 PM »

Quote from: indianabob on July 27, 2013, 01:21:45 AM

Hi folks,
The example that got my attention was when I spoke to a pastor's wife who told me that we had to have the free will to love and honor God, because without that choice our love was not real, not true. In other words, love that is not voluntary is of no real value, it is just an empty pretense.
She also commented about the teaching that God will punish forever those who do not accept God in this life. I inquired about little children and she replied that little children are innocent and that they get a free pass into heaven to be with their parents.

So what about the children of Muslims and Hindus?

They were condemned from before the worlds were made. End of story. WOW

Indianabob

What nonsense these Xtians puke out.

You should have asked her how does one love God without a cause? How does the carnal mind 'free-willingly' cause itself to love God when it is naturally enmity [hatred] against God and it is not subject to God's laws neither is it able to make itself subject to those laws?So then how does one volunteer 'freely' [using that word loosely] to love God in the first place?

Well the scriptures tell us but dopey Xtians don't believe the scriptures, so they say things like that.

The carnal mind can not of its own Christian-given 'free will' choose to love God - it can not. The scriptures say it can not. In fact it says that no man can come to Him unless he is dragged of God to come to Him. Where's the 'free will' in that?

If humans really did have a 'free will' then it would make God a liar, for they would indeed be able to, at any time, come to Him and repent and choose to love God without a cause [free will is the ability to make UNCAUSED choices, not Caused choices] and for no reason at all. If there's a reason you love God, then that ain't 'free will'... but caused will - which is what we have.

Something causes her to love her husband, something causes her to love her kids - and I would bet a million dollars that she can't simply shut that off and 'free-willingly' choose to stop loving her kids.

se7en · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2013, 04:42:53 PM »

*puts million dollars back in his sock drawer*

Yeah buddy, I'm not going to bet against that.

I'm a professional magician by trade... we magicians make a big deal about having the audience know they have "A FREE CHOICE" when it comes to selecting a card. There are so many methods and ways we "force" cards. I hope I didn't ruin any magic tricks for you guys.

I have noticed now, the more I go on about free selection and free choice during my shows... the more amazed the audience is

"I must have had a free choice, because it's TRUE... I DO have free will" Ooooooh what a lie.

In performing magic for an audience, there is always... ALWAYS a bit of information left out that the audience is not aware of. THAT'S what makes it seem magical! Because if you knew all about the trick, the illusion is lost and it's all logical and flows reasonably.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed from a lack of knowledge.

John 9:39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”

Jesus is the master magician!

Dave in Tenn · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2013, 07:30:52 PM »

Is being re-run on the Science channel tonight...probably not the last time, but I won't keep bringing it up. I'm going to watch at least the first bit again and see if I 'saw' it right the first time.

Se7en, I've also seen quite a bit lately on how the brain works. It's fascinating stuff to me that makes 'parables' out of a lot of things.

se7en · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2013, 01:50:35 PM »

Oooh, I agree Dave. I recently finished reading a a book... "Sleights of Mind: What the Neuroscience of Magic Reveals About Our Everyday Deceptions"

It's a couple of scientists who talk with magicians on how they go about deceiving the mind. The methods used and why it physiologically works to deceive us.

It's a really great book and has some excellent insight as to the "why" magic tricks work on us, and how we are deceived.

A lot of it has to do with perception, and also certain facts about color/light, hand motions, what's being said, etc. It all plays a part in deceiving.

To relate all of this in a spiritual sense... the enemy knows exactly what buttons to press to deceive us. We don't know what we don't know. There is just a bit of information left out that we don't know about. It takes God to drag us out of that and cause us to see past the veil. It takes God to give us that different perspective to "see" what's really going on.

I'm so glad He has brought us into the light, and in the process of maturing us daily!

acomplishedartis · « **Reply #19 on:** August 02, 2013, 05:50:51 AM »

This is a good one (almost 6 min. long):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N6S9OidmNZM

bible-truths.com/forums

News:

Author Topic: Through the wormhole (Read 8054 times)

wat

Pierdut

acomplishedartis