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Through the wormhole

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Pierdut:

--- Quote from: indianabob on July 26, 2013, 10:21:45 PM ---Hi folks,
The example that got my attention was when I spoke to a pastor's wife who told me that we had to have the free will to love and honor God, because without that choice our love was not real, not true. In other words, love that is not voluntary is of no real value, it is just an empty pretense.
She also commented about the teaching that God will punish forever those who do not accept God in this life. I inquired about little children and she replied that little children are innocent and that they get a free pass into heaven to be with their parents.

So what about the children of Muslims and Hindus?

They were condemned from before the worlds were made. End of story. WOW

Indianabob

--- End quote ---

What nonsense these Xtians puke out.

You should have asked her how does one love God without a cause? How does the carnal mind 'free-willingly' cause itself to love God when it is naturally enmity [hatred] against God and it is not subject to God's laws neither is it able to make itself subject to those laws?So then how does one volunteer 'freely' [using that word loosely] to love God in the first place?

Well the scriptures tell us but dopey Xtians don't believe the scriptures, so they say things like that.

The carnal mind can not of its own Christian-given 'free will' choose to love God - it can not. The scriptures say it can not. In fact it says that no man can come to Him unless he is dragged of God to come to Him. Where's the 'free will' in that?

If humans really did have a 'free will' then it would make God a liar, for they would indeed be able to, at any time, come to Him and repent and choose to love God without a cause [free will is the ability to make UNCAUSED choices, not Caused choices] and for no reason at all. If there's a reason you love God, then that ain't 'free will'... but caused will - which is what we have.

Something causes her to love her husband, something causes her to love her kids - and I would bet a million dollars that she can't simply shut that off and 'free-willingly' choose to stop loving her kids.

se7en:
*puts million dollars back in his sock drawer*

Yeah buddy, I'm not going to bet against that.

I'm a professional magician by trade... we magicians make a big deal about having the audience know they have "A FREE CHOICE" when it comes to selecting a card. There are so many methods and ways we "force" cards. I hope I didn't ruin any magic tricks for you guys.

I have noticed now, the more I go on about free selection and free choice during my shows... the more amazed the audience is :)

"I must have had a free choice, because it's TRUE... I DO have free will"  Ooooooh what a lie.

In performing magic for an audience, there is always... ALWAYS a bit of information left out that the audience is not aware of. THAT'S what makes it seem magical! Because if you knew all about the trick, the illusion is lost and it's all logical and flows reasonably.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed from a lack of knowledge.

John 9:39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”

Jesus is the master magician!

Dave in Tenn:
Is being re-run on the Science channel tonight...probably not the last time, but I won't keep bringing it up.  I'm going to watch at least the first bit again and see if I 'saw' it right the first time.

Se7en, I've also seen quite a bit lately on how the brain works.  It's fascinating stuff to me that makes 'parables' out of a lot of things.

se7en:
Oooh, I agree Dave. I recently finished reading a a book... "Sleights of Mind: What the Neuroscience of Magic Reveals About Our Everyday Deceptions"

It's a couple of scientists who talk with magicians on how they go about deceiving the mind. The methods used and why it physiologically works to deceive us.

It's a really great book and has some excellent insight as to the "why" magic tricks work on us, and how we are deceived.

A lot of it has to do with perception, and also certain facts about color/light, hand motions, what's being said, etc. It all plays a part in deceiving.

To relate all of this in a spiritual sense... the enemy knows exactly what buttons to press to deceive us. We don't know what we don't know. There is just a bit of information left out that we don't know about. It takes God to drag us out of that and cause us to see past the veil. It takes God to give us that different perspective to "see" what's really going on.

I'm so glad He has brought us into the light, and in the process of maturing us daily!

acomplishedartis:

This is a good one (almost 6 min. long):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N6S9OidmNZM

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