An interesting passage...

[broken]

Anyone ever read 2 Kings 2:23-25?

Here's the text -

"23From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him.  'Get out of here, baldy!' they said.  'Get out of here, baldy!'  24He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD.  Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.  25And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria."

Just curious as to what some of you guys think.

Brandon

[rvhill]

Passage 2 Kings 2:23-25:
23He went up from Jericho to Bethel. On the way, [a]young [maturing and accountable] boys came out of the city and mocked him and said to him, Go up [in a whirlwind], you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!
   24And he turned around and looked at them and called a curse down on them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and ripped up forty-two of the boys.

   25Elisha went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.

2 Kings 2:23 This incident has long been misunderstood because the Hebrew word "naar" was translated "little boys." That these characteristic juvenile delinquents were old enough to be fully accountable is obvious from the use of the word elsewhere. For example, it was used by David of his son Solomon and translated "young and inexperienced," when Solomon was a father (I Chron. 22:5; cf. I Kings 14:21 and II Chron. 9:30 ). It was used of Joseph when he was seventeen (Gen. 37:2). In fact, not less than seventy times in the King James Version this word "naar" is translated "young man" or "young men."

So, they were some were between the age of 12 and 30. There were more then 42 of them, and they were being aggressive. I don't see the problem.

[broken]

Passage 2 Kings 2:23-25:
23He went up from Jericho to Bethel. On the way, [a]young [maturing and accountable] boys came out of the city and mocked him and said to him, Go up [in a whirlwind], you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!
   24And he turned around and looked at them and called a curse down on them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and ripped up forty-two of the boys.

   25Elisha went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.

2 Kings 2:23 This incident has long been misunderstood because the Hebrew word "naar" was translated "little boys." That these characteristic juvenile delinquents were old enough to be fully accountable is obvious from the use of the word elsewhere. For example, it was used by David of his son Solomon and translated "young and inexperienced," when Solomon was a father (I Chron. 22:5; cf. I Kings 14:21 and II Chron. 9:30 ). It was used of Joseph when he was seventeen (Gen. 37:2). In fact, not less than seventy times in the King James Version this word "naar" is translated "young man" or "young men."

So, they were some were between the age of 12 and 30. There were more then 42 of them, and they were being aggressive. I don't see the problem.

It plays on your understanding of God's mercy.  Why would God unleash these bears on the young men (no one was arguing with the understanding reading "young men") for such a harmless thing as calling Elisha "baldy?"  Further, why would God respect the calling of a curse for such an illtempered response to a little jeering?

Brandon

[jerry cabral]

A Fathers Love, as our Fathers Love of his annointed it seem to be horrendice, even King David did not touch Saul when He could have at any time.  I think its nothing compared when they messed with his beloved child as in Psalms 18 in which the Most High uncovered the foundations of the world just at his rebuke.  Messed with his Beloved and all Hell was paid.  I would have to say I dont know about mercy but that Psalms shows a Fathers Love.

[Sonia]

Understanding God's mercy, or His righteous justice? Perhaps scoffing at a prophet is not such a "minor" thing.

1Blessed is the man
  who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
  nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2but his delight is in the law of the LORD,
  and on his law he meditates day and night.

3He is like a tree
  planted by streams of water
that yields its fruit in its season,
  and its leaf does not wither.
In all that he does, he prospers.
4The wicked are not so,
  but are like chaff that the wind drives away.

5Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
  nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous;
6for the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
  but the way of the wicked will perish.


What's your understanding Brandon? Are you trying to get at something specific?
Sonia

[orion77]

Interesting verses, Brandon.  Not sure what it means, but seems there might be some spiritual significance with the two bears and 42 boys slain.  Would have to find other verses that would explain it.  I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions without other scripture.

God bless,

Gary

[rvhill]

Passage 2 Kings 2:23-25:
23He went up from Jericho to Bethel. On the way, [a]young [maturing and accountable] boys came out of the city and mocked him and said to him, Go up [in a whirlwind], you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!
   24And he turned around and looked at them and called a curse down on them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and ripped up forty-two of the boys.

   25Elisha went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.

2 Kings 2:23 This incident has long been misunderstood because the Hebrew word "naar" was translated "little boys." That these characteristic juvenile delinquents were old enough to be fully accountable is obvious from the use of the word elsewhere. For example, it was used by David of his son Solomon and translated "young and inexperienced," when Solomon was a father (I Chron. 22:5; cf. I Kings 14:21 and II Chron. 9:30 ). It was used of Joseph when he was seventeen (Gen. 37:2). In fact, not less than seventy times in the King James Version this word "naar" is translated "young man" or "young men."

So, they were some were between the age of 12 and 30. There were more then 42 of them, and they were being aggressive. I don't see the problem.

It plays on your understanding of God's mercy.  Why would God unleash these bears on the young men (no one was arguing with the understanding reading "young men") for such a harmless thing as calling Elisha "baldy?"  Further, why would God respect the calling of a curse for such an illtempered response to a little jeering?

Brandon

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. One old man is being accosted by over 42 young men. The young men are being aggressive, so the old man ask God for help. So God sends to bears to help the old man. The bear being bears many of the young men are hurt badly.

[broken]

Understanding God's mercy, or His righteous justice? Perhaps scoffing at a prophet is not such a "minor" thing.

1Blessed is the man
  who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
  nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2but his delight is in the law of the LORD,
  and on his law he meditates day and night.

3He is like a tree
  planted by streams of water
that yields its fruit in its season,
  and its leaf does not wither.
In all that he does, he prospers.
4The wicked are not so,
  but are like chaff that the wind drives away.

5Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
  nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous;
6for the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
  but the way of the wicked will perish.


What's your understanding Brandon? Are you trying to get at something specific?
Sonia

I'm getting somewhere, but the conversation hasn't gotten there yet, though you pointed to it.  

I agree with you, though, this was an expression of God's justice; I'm just not sure we will all agree as to how it is an expression of His justice.

Brandon

[broken]

Interesting verses, Brandon.  Not sure what it means, but seems there might be some spiritual significance with the two bears and 42 boys slain.  Would have to find other verses that would explain it.  I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions without other scripture.

God bless,

Gary

I'm not sure if you're on the level with the others here, Gary, but I don't think there is some deeper, spiritualized, allegorized meaning here.  This comes from the book of Kings which is itself a historical narrative, not theological treatise.

Brandon

[broken]

Passage 2 Kings 2:23-25:
23He went up from Jericho to Bethel. On the way, [a]young [maturing and accountable] boys came out of the city and mocked him and said to him, Go up [in a whirlwind], you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!
   24And he turned around and looked at them and called a curse down on them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and ripped up forty-two of the boys.

   25Elisha went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.

2 Kings 2:23 This incident has long been misunderstood because the Hebrew word "naar" was translated "little boys." That these characteristic juvenile delinquents were old enough to be fully accountable is obvious from the use of the word elsewhere. For example, it was used by David of his son Solomon and translated "young and inexperienced," when Solomon was a father (I Chron. 22:5; cf. I Kings 14:21 and II Chron. 9:30 ). It was used of Joseph when he was seventeen (Gen. 37:2). In fact, not less than seventy times in the King James Version this word "naar" is translated "young man" or "young men."

So, they were some were between the age of 12 and 30. There were more then 42 of them, and they were being aggressive. I don't see the problem.

It plays on your understanding of God's mercy.  Why would God unleash these bears on the young men (no one was arguing with the understanding reading "young men") for such a harmless thing as calling Elisha "baldy?"  Further, why would God respect the calling of a curse for such an illtempered response to a little jeering?

Brandon

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. One old man is being accosted by over 42 young men. The young men are being aggressive, so the old man ask God for help. So God sends to bears to help the old man. The bear being bears many of the young men are hurt badly.

1. There is nothing in the text to even suggest that Elisha is being threatened physically; therefore there is no imminent danger.

2. Elisha was a prophet, which means that he did not simply "ask God for help."  As a prophet he had the authority - granted by God - to call down blessings and cursings on those whom he saw fit.

The way that the text reads, there is no reason for us to believe that this was anything more than an older man annoyed with some boys who were making fun of him.  That seems like a pretty shallow reason to call out bears to maul the boys.

Brandon