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Was America ever really a nation under God?
Addison:
I heard Ray say in one of his lecture videos that is posted on YouTube that we (The U.S.A.) used to be a nation under God and then he said something like "I don't know what we are anymore though". I wish I could remember which video it was otherwise I'd link to it.
Anyway, I don't see how this could be true considering...
"...for by thy sorceries were ALL NATIONS deceived"
Revelation 18:22-24
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD..." (Rev. 12:9).
"Again, the Devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 And he said to Him, “I will give You all these things if You will fall down and worship me.” (Matt 4:8-9)
In Ray's paper "The Lucifer Hoax and the Mission of Satan" he states:
"For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed [Why? Why are their eyes ‘closed?’ Because, "the god of this world has BLINDED… them…" That’s why] lest at ANY TIME they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, and I should HEAL them" (Matt. 13:15).
We coin the phrase, "In God We Trust," and parrot the phrase, "One Nation Under God," but how can that be, seeing that we have just read in the Scriptures that all the kingdoms of this world belong to Satan who has blinded the minds of these same nations. Now surely someone will say, "But Mr. Smith, Satan has blinded the minds of only those who ‘believe not.’" Well, if they are not blinded, then they will believe the above Scriptures that say Satan is the god of this world and Satan owns all the nations of this world! But the so-called "believers" don’t really "believe" the Scriptures that I just quoted, DO THEY? No, of course they don’t. Do you see how God’s Word is a "two-edged sword?"
So how can Ray say that we, the U.S.A., were once a nation "under God" and then say "but how can that be [that we are a "Nation under God"], seeing that we have just read in the Scriptures that all the kingdoms of this world belong to Satan" ?
And in his 9/11 paper he implies that the attack was a judgment against our nation, and I can definitely understand why he believes that. In fact, I am the first to tell you that I am afraid that an even more severe judgment is imminent on America... with all the weather that is getting out of control, and the fragileness of our economy, and war and regional conflicts that we are getting involved with... it all seems like a recipe for disaster, but I won't get in to all of that.
Anyway, anyone can clearly see that America has especially been blessed with great wealth (Ray details this quite nicely in his 9/11 paper), but I just have a hard time agreeing that America could have ever been a nation under God- When was this? Anyone who takes a look at our nation's history can see times of division, war, slavery, I definitely can't think of a time when we have ever "loved our enemies", etc.
Nevermind the fact that most of our nation's current wealth is debt-financed anyway... our corrupt monetary system has enabled us to have a debt-based currency so we are able to have this "we'll pay it off later" mentality which has allowed to enter in to wars (that we would have never otherwise been able to afford), provide generous entitlements to seniors (which we also don't technically have the money to do), take on massive infrastructure projects, etc., etc. And this is the precise reason why our nation is in 17 TRILLION dollars of DEBT. So yes, we have the treasures of wealth, but have attained much of this wealth dishonestly. If someone thinks I'm wrong about that, then please explain why.
I can understand the symbolism that Ray points out in his paper (like the towers representing wealth that happened to be in the city that represents our nation's wealth)- but why is 9/11 considered a judgment and not, say, the attack on Pearl Harbor?
I don't want to make this too long, but I think you understand the gist of what I am getting at.
Addison
Dave in Tenn:
Just for history and for other-than-Americans, the words "under God" were added to the pledge of allegiance in the mid 1950's. No, that's not a typo...the mid NINETEEN-FIFTIES. Presumably, before then "we" were either "one nation indivisible" or "one nation not under God", depending on your viewpoint.
Could be (and I believe was) that Ray was using a bit of sarcasm with that statement.
A gentle reminder: we won't let this topic veer into anything like partisan politics.
Addison:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 01, 2013, 03:54:23 PM ---Just for history and for other-than-Americans, the words "under God" were added to the pledge of allegiance in the mid 1950's. No, that's not a typo...the mid NINETEEN-FIFTIES.
Could be (and I believe was) that Ray was using a bit of sarcasm with that statement.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I wouldn't use the word "sarcastic" but maybe it was "tongue-in-cheek".
However, he states many times that America (and other nations) are CHRISTIAN NATIONS. But how can we be "Christian nations" if all nations are deceived by Satan?
In his 9/11 paper he states:
"...(the Christian nations of Northwestern Europe, Australia, South America, Canada, and AMERICA)"
and
"As we have seen in Jeremiah, God will punish ALL NATIONS, but the Christian Nations will be the first to fall"
Although he does point out that they may be "Christian" but that doesn't mean "Christ-like". But why are we Christian nations? Because the majority supposedly calls themselves Christian? So if a nation has less than 50% of its population that proclaim to be Christian than that nation won't be one of the first to fall?
My point is that if they aren't Christ-like, then why even bother calling them Christian nations? Jesus said "why do you call me Lord, Lord and don't do what I say?" (Luke 6:46)
He claims that the Christian nations of Northwestern Europe, Australia, South America, Canada, and AMERICA are Israel/God's chosen. So the small percentage of those who call themselves Christian in places like Iraq/Iran/Saudi Arabia, etc. AREN'T in this group of God's people, but those who call themselves Christian but aren't actually Christ-like but happen to live in countries that are predominantly Christian are God's chosen? Huh?
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 01, 2013, 03:54:23 PM ---
A gentle reminder: we won't let this topic veer into anything like partisan politics.
--- End quote ---
I agree that we shouldn't, and I don't know why we would. I don't even vote, personally. So I don't know why anyone might think I'm trying to make any kind of a political statement.
Dave in Tenn:
Addison, how can we call the Christian Churches that, knowing that they are both the deceived and the pulpit of the deceivers? The more "Christian" a nation, the more under the influence of the synagogue of Satan. Are the churches "under God"?
In a certain sense, it may be a 'commendation' to be called a "christian nation"...at least 'we' aren't the heathen...but in another sense, 'we' share the hypocrisy of the churches that have 'ruled' over us.
Judgement begins in the house of God.
Just to note: by some estimates there are currently more professing Christians in China than in the Unites States, though not as a percentage of the population. Other continents and nations have their own history and current relationship with Christendom. None are righteous...no, not one.
microlink:
Real good comments Dave. Thanks!
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