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Was America ever really a nation under God?

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Addison:

--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 01, 2013, 04:30:06 PM ---Addison, how can we call the Christian Churches that, knowing that they are both the deceived and the pulpit of the deceivers?  The more "Christian" a nation, the more under the influence of the synagogue of Satan.  Are the churches "under God"? 

In a certain sense, it may be a 'commendation' to be called a "christian nation"...at least 'we' aren't the heathen...but in another sense, 'we' share the hypocrisy of the churches that have 'ruled' over us. 

Judgement begins in the house of God.

Just to note:  by some estimates there are currently more professing Christians in China than in the Unites States, though not as a percentage of the population.  Other continents and nations have their own history and current relationship with Christendom.  None are righteous...no, not one.

--- End quote ---

Wow, Dave. Thanks a lot. I really feel like I am coming closer to an understanding of this. Let me see if I understand this correctly:

I just read Rev. 18, and a couple verses caught my eye.

because all the nations were deceived
by your sorcery,[q]
24 and the blood of prophets and saints,
and of all those slaughtered on earth,
was found in you.[r]

I originally was going to reply back to your comment: "
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 01, 2013, 04:30:06 PM --- The more "Christian" a nation, the more under the influence of the synagogue of Satan. 

--- End quote ---
" with something like "So America is more under the influence of Satan than, say, a corrupt and destitute country like Somalia or somewhere?" But (if I understand this correctly) the answer to that question is "yes" because we can blame the ungodliness of the heathen world on the heresies that come out of the church (which are most abundant in America and a few other countries especially in the west) which have such a major influence on most of the world. Do I have this correct?

For all the nations have drunk[d]
the wine of her sexual immorality,
which brings wrath. (Rev 18:3)

"All the nations"- this includes Somalia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Sudan, etc.
"The wine of her sexual immorality" - the bad teachings of "Christianity"- which predominantly come out of the powerful nations like the U.S. and therefore have the most influence over the world.

So we can place some of the blame for the the ungodliness of the heathen world on Babylon/God's people/The Church (which, again, happens to have the most power and influence in our nation and a few others). If the church hadn't become a dwelling for demons (Rev 18:3) then maybe the world wouldn't be so "drunk" (corrupt).

Do I understand this?

Dave in Tenn:
I think you have it correct.  It isn't that "the nations without the law" (and the people within them)  are without excuse themselves, but those who have been "given much" are required much, and those who "teach" are accountable for those who learn.

The world is a very, very complex place.  The tangle of religion, ideology, philosophy, etc. is so convoluted (especially today with such wide-spread contact and flow of information) that only God can untangle it.  We have faith that He has, is, and ultimately will, and are instructed to pray like this:  Thy Kingdom come.  Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.  WHEN His judgments are in the earth, the people will learn righteousness. 

We're pretty darn complex even as individuals, and the are perfectly capable ourselves of being convoluted messes of religion, ideology, philosophy, etc.  I hope it is happening in US...and I don't mean the United States. 

A little salt and a little light does a lot of good.  But if the "light" is darkness, and if the "salt" has lost its savor, well...I don't need to finish the sentence here.

Do good. 

se7en:
"...for by thy sorceries were ALL NATIONS deceived"
Revelation 18:22-24

Great stuff all, don't forget Ray's commendation that the whole book of revelation is SIGNAFIED. It's a symbol. And Ray's 11th rule for understanding scripture. It's all for our admonition for my age, for me. It's personal.

The nations are all the nations in me. I was completley deceived! While in the babylon church I thought I was eating meat and had it all figured out and everything was going my way... I didn't realize I was blind, and naked! ALL NATIONS are all the buildings and empires and doctrines I put up and worshiped.

I'm not saying that this doesn't have a physical type, but the spiritual is what we are after.

I don't think the USA or any other nation as a (physical) nation was ever "under God" as in "We know who God is and worship Him". We are ALL deceived, until God drags us out and puts us into the light of His son :)

I think you guys know what I mean to say... ALL is of (under) God but within ourselves as carnal flesh, all nations are deceived.

I wish I could articulate what I mean to say, in a better way. I hope I'm communicating correctly?

Dave in Tenn:
Signified.  I understand.  Of course the Spiritual is what we are after.  For me, all these things ARE spiritual, whether they reside in my heart and mind or in the broader culture/world at large.  I just can't change the greater culture...not more than a little bit and not for more than a moment.  The great and small are all raised up.

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