> General Discussions
SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
cjwood:
jfk, sometimes your brashness is hard to swallow. can you say honestly that you confronted moises' statements out of an attitude of brotherly love, or more from a perspective of haughtiness??? ray smith loved moises with a deep brotherly love, spending time in study with moises in ray's own home. ray would have addressed moises with love and mercy, IF there was a need. i do not see those attributes in your comments. and to accuse those of us who posted Scripture regarding the spirits of God as "cheerleaders', is showing a lack of brotherly love to us also.
claudia
microlink:
I find it refreshing and enlightening to see us challenging one another on the forum in love and with a firm desire to learn from one another and to love one another as we must do.
Kat:
The thing is that if somebody wants to elaborate on something that Ray taught, then they also need to use the same care he took in representing what the Scriptures say. Ray took great pain to make sure that what he spoke was precisely what the Scripture was saying, what ALL the Scripture was saying.
So when posting we need to be ready to respond to all the questions and criticism we may get... by a "multitude of counselors" we can be more certain.
Pro 11:14 Where there is no counsel, the people fall;
But in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
We also have a broad readership and need to seek great accuracy from the Scripture, using the method Ray taught of a second witness.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
onelovedread:
I don't want to stir up any quarrel, you all make valid points (Claudia, JFK and Kat).
What I do know is that as someone who is a bit slower to understand and not as skillful in expressing points, I should feel from the forum members, that when I'm off base, correction ought to be applied in a loving and encouraging, even if firm way.
We are at different levels of maturity on this forum. Many of us have been gently rebuked and instructed by the "elders" to go back and study again Ray's teachings for the answers to basic questions that we have appeared to miss completely.
Dave also made the point that due to constraints of learning English as a second language, some points may come over as a bit unclear. Shouldn't we then show a little more patience, so that we don't discourage each other.
That said, I'm sure that Moises isn't put off by JFK who takes pride in being edgy. ;D.
But with the utmost respect for all (yes you too JFK ;D), I think Claudia has made a point that we should all consider and apply.
But who am I? Not an expert or authority. Just a dreadlocked brother who declares, "One Love"!
;D 8) ;)
acomplishedartis:
God knows that it’s not my intention to bring heresy to the forum or anywhere else. My conscience is clean that I am trying my best to understand these difficult concepts and if I am wrong; I will admit it and move on.
Anyway
Here are quotes from Scripture and Ray’s emails (in blue) that talk in more detail about what I was saying:
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- Soul, body, spirit (the human spirit has no conscience on its own)
‘‘The "soul" is the seat of sensation, CONSCIOUSNESS, AND FEELINGS, not the body or the spirit. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).
A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of CONSCIOUSNESS, FEELINGS, AND EMOTIONS. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.’’
‘‘And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground (the body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (the spirit); and man became A LIVING SOUL. (a living human being)’’ (Gen. 2:7)
‘‘The spirit HAS NO CONSCIOUSNESS, not even in life. When a doctor puts someone under to operate, the person is NOT DEAD, he still has his spirit, but he has NO CONSCIOUSNESS. We need a brain to have soul and consciousness. When someone shoots you through the brain, you LOSE YOUR SOUL.’’
‘‘You have to get out of out if your head the idea that the spirit soul and body are "separate entities" as if they could function independently of each other. Remember my TV analogy of six years ago? The console is the body, the picture is the soul, and the electricity is the spirit. Yes, they are "entities," if you will that have distinct names, and functions, but none of them produces anything independent of each other. Smash the console and you have not soul (picture). Pull the plug and you have not soul (picture).
Likewise remove the spirit, and the body dies. Remove the spirit and the soul disappears. Smash the body and the soul disappears. The soul IS THE SENTIENT man. The emotional, thinking, conscious man. This consciousness is called "soul." It is not a thing that can literally travel or go somewhere independent of the body and brain. That is why it is said in the Greek Scriptures that at death the soul goes to hades. Hades means the unseen, the emperceptible, unconsciousness.
It take spirit from God in a body to give it live, which life is then called "a LIVING SOUL."
It takes a little meditation to understand these concepts.’’
-God is a conscious spirit and He can own spirits. The Holy Spirit, is His spirit of holiness, (and yes; there is only ONE holy spirit)
‘‘Jesus is the Personification of the Holy Spirit (His SPIRIT FATHER living IN Him). Therefore, the Person Jesus is the “He and the Him,” not the Spirit of God in Him. God the Father OWNS, if you will, His OWN Spirit. It belongs TO Him. IT is HIS. The Holy Spirit DOES NOT OWN GOD THE FATHER. Can you see and understand that? God HAS a spirit. The Holy Spirit DOES NOT HAVE A GOD, therefore, it is an IT, and not a HE or a HIM. ’’
‘‘I never said that no spirit has consciousness. OUR spirit has no consciousness. God IS Spirit and God is conscious, but we are NOT GOD. We only have a form of spirit in us to keep us alive. When converted God gives us yet ANOTHER SPIRIT which is called the HOLY Spirit, and it effects out consciousness, but does not keep us conscious at death, as that requires resurrection.’’
‘‘Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without “spirit.” Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.). There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man’s spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of “soul.” We are said to have new “spiritual” bodies, not that we are made “spirits.”’’
- There is a borrowed spirit (from God) in all humans and animals which keeps them alive,
‘‘Every person (and animal) has a “spirit.” There is no life without spirit. At death OUR spirit return to our God Who gave it to us. Spirit does not die. But, spirit has no consciousness of its own. It must be united with a body. That is why there is coming a Resurrection of the DEAD. Adam’s body had the spirit of God (Note: This was not His Holy Spirit, therefore God own more than one spirit) breathed into it and then Adam became a LIVING SOUL. God’s Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive (Note: same spirit that gave life to Adam, and EVERYBODY else), but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord. ETc. Sorry, but it would take days to answer your question in detail.’’
‘‘ALL men (and animals) have a spirit. This spirit gives life to the body and produces soul (feelings, thinking, emotions, etc.). But God dwells in our hearts and minds by way of His HOLY Spirit, which is a different spirit.’’
“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it (Because it was borrowed-ALL is of God)” (Ecc. 12:7).
-Therefore God is EVERYWHERE (ALL is from God, we in Him and for Him and through Him):
‘‘So let’s think about this a little bit, who is the Father? In Him we live and breath and have our being. Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish. The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light. It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen. So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God. The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.
Now this is what the Scriptures say, we are in God and God is in us. So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair. God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.
David was inspired to write, where can I go to get away from you God, up to heaven, down to sheol, (Psalms 139:7-12).
There’s no place I can go, where you are not. Why? God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head. He (God) tells us that, God is not a man... Jesus Christ is a man.
Where is God? EVERYWHERE!’’
Meditate about it… if spirit is life… and God has given enough of this spirit of Him to all living things to keep them alive; THEN… there is a little bit of God in all living creatures, which means that God is EVERYWHERE! (Psalms 139:7-12).
If we put enough attention, we will start to see a little bit of God ANYWHERE!
Moises
Ps. All these quotes posted before by others (1 Cor. 8:6, Ephesians 4:4-6, 1st Corinthians 12, Gal 5:22, Gal 5:23, Eph 5:8, Eph 5:9, Eph 5:10) doesn’t contradict what I have just posted.
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