> General Discussions
SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Mbongiseni:
Hi all
I love the way the 'story' came out! Its a blessing to imbibe such thruths.
This thread like so many others, to me, is full of the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of truth.I like
the manner in wich Moises put it and more clearly se7en's understanding. The story comes out
in parables yet its the same story, in diversity yet unity, like diverse body parts of one body.
Keep up the good spirit.
Mbongiseni
loretta:
--- Quote --- ;D I think I'll change my name to Hagar the Horrible.
--- End quote ---
Hagar the what? I liked this character sketch I found on Wikipedia. Most of us can certainly identify with Hagar at some point in our lives! :) :) :)
--- Quote ---Hägar's simplistic, childlike cluelessness, often finding himself at odds with his more sensible family members. Much to Hägar's chagrin, on the few occasions where he behaves maturely (such as helping Helga in daily tasks or displaying self-control of his titanic appetite), the other characters are often caught off guard, since they are more accustomed with his bumbling and childish attitude. The most notable example was when Helga demanded that Hägar speak the truth at least one time, Hägar agrees and does so, something that pleasantly surprises even God himself, who promptly makes angels playing the trumpets in celebration of this "miracle". Emphasis mine
--- End quote ---
As a newbie to scriptural truths and the BT forum, I was confused after reading Moises’ first post. It came across as very esoteric, and quite unlike Ray’s teaching. Without exception, Ray’s teachings are refreshingly clear and lucid and takes away any notion that understanding scriptural truths calls for a high degree of spirituality and/or spiritual expression. (Even my teen daughter would understand Ray's papers although God would have to take off the blinders before she accepted the truth). So I was relieved when JfK pointed out the basic rule of second witness in support of what he called an opinion/philosophy. To be honest, I didn’t quite follow most of the conversation in this thread and it was reminiscent of my former days in Christendom, except for when, I believe, some well meaning souls chipped in and tried to take the conversation in a meaningful direction. Although I cringe at the thought of being put under a spiritual microscope myself, it has served me well and I have learnt not to air my personal revelations (and I have many!) that have no scriptural basis on a forum that is open to varying levels of maturity. That is why I was surprised to find out that Moises had been learning at Ray’s feet, so to speak, and which was probably the reason for JfK’s exasperation and name calling! :) Moises, I don't mean to cause you any offense, I love you as a brother, but I still don't get what you are trying to say, despite all the bold lettering.
acomplishedartis:
loretta.
I have already play by the rules and got my two witness on what I was asked for. It is a dificult subject I know. What I wanted to prove is in simple sentences in red letters and the blue letters are not mine.
Here is just last simple question for you.
If God put His spirit in adam so that he would become a living soul. Are we to believe that He puted His holy spirit on him?
what is so wrong or esoteric if God have more than one spirit? It doesn't contradict other Scriptures. If spirit is life;it makes sense.
Ok. I am done.
loretta:
--- Quote ---If God put His spirit in adam so that he would become a living soul. Are we to believe that He puted His holy spirit on him?
--- End quote ---
Ah, now you are beginning to get a bit coherent Moises! :)
I don't have an answer to your question. Better leave it to the bereans, otherwise this thread will go in another direction... Guess, that's how we ended up with the doctrine of the Trinity! :) But definitely, something to meditate upon. It would be helpful if you gave us the link to Ray's paper so we could read it in its entirety.
Kat:
--- Quote from: Moises G. on August 13, 2013, 08:23:01 PM ---Here is just last simple question for you.
If God put His spirit in adam so that he would become a living soul. Are we to believe that He puted His holy spirit on him?
what is so wrong or esoteric if God have more than one spirit? It doesn't contradict other Scriptures. If spirit is life;it makes sense.
--- End quote ---
As Loretta pointed out, Moises has a valid question here. So what spirit did Adam have.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died.
Adam had the same "spirit of life" that all living breathing creature have.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
God gives us all spirit so that we can have life, this is not the Holy Spirit. Here is a few little refreshers where Ray spoke on this.
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm ------------------------------
God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.
v
In Scripture, death is called a "return" [Heb. shub]. Before we were born we had no body, no soul, and no perception of any kind. At birth God gave us a body, implanted to us His spirit, which gives the body perception (through the brain and the five senses). At death, we [shub] RETURN. The reversal of what happened at birth. The spirit returns to God (Ecc. 12:7), the body returns to the dust (all the elements of man's body are found in the ground or earth) (Job 10:9, Ecc. 3:18-21), and the soul returns to no perception again (the imperceptible or unseen-hades) (Acts 2:27 and Psalm 49:15). This is what the Scriptures very plainly teach: where all that man "is" came from, that's where all that man "is" returns to.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html ------
Dear John:
Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.). There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2899.0.html -----
COMMENT: The spirit HAS NO CONSCIOUSNESS, not even in life. When a doctor puts someone under to operate, the person is NOT DEAD, he still has his spirit, but he has NO CONSCIOUSNESS. We need a brain to have soul and consciousness. When someone shoots you through the brain, you LOSE YOUR SOUL.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1594.0.html -------
Every person (and animal) has a "spirit." There is no life without spirit. At death OUR spirit return to our God Who gave it to us. Spirit does not die. But, spirit has no consciencousness of its own. It must be united with a body. That is why there is coming a Resurrection of the DEAD. Adam's body had the spirit of God breathed into it and then Adam became a LIVING SOUL. God's Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive, but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2148.0 ----------------
Man is composed of two vital components: a body and a spirit. No body, including animals can live without spirit. When the spirit from God that He gives all humans unites with a physical body, the result is "living soul." When God created Adam of the elements of the ground and breathed in his nostrils the breath [or ruach--spirit], the man became a "living soul." We only live--think, feel, taste, hear, smell, talk, create, love, etc., because of the result of body and spirit. The soul does not exist in a vacuum or by itself without the body and spirit. At death, the spirit is taken back by God, and the body returns to the dust. There IS NO SOUL in death. The sentient person with his personality, character, and consciousness will only revive when God reunited our spirit with a new body. This happens at resurrection, which is yet future.
God be with you,
Ray
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At birth we receive breath/spirit from God that give us life and consciousness, soul. This becomes the means by which we are developed and shaped into who we are, our personality and character. Certainly this spirit is from God, but it only gives us the means (through the 5 senses) to operate and live in this world, it does not impart understanding of the spiritual, this is the fleshly/carnal mind, enmity against God/Truth.
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
v. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
v. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
Only for a few now, does God give an addition to our spirit of flesh/bondage, the Holy Spirit.. by this addition of Spirit He will develop His righteousness in these chosen few in their lifetime.
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself (the Holy Spirit of God) bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Does this mean God has more than 1 Spirit? I don't think so, God works through His Spirit without limit in diversity to do all that He does.
1Co 12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
v. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
v. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
1Co 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
v. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
v. 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
v. 17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
It has been mentioned that there is the Scripture that speaks of "the 7 Spirits of God."
Rev 5:6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
These 7 Spirits of God is speaking of the Lamb - Jesus Christ, who is our God over this creation. Again the number 7 is a symbolic number to represent the absolute completeness/fullness of Jesus Christ, it is the number of PERFECTION!
1Co 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
v. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world...
I just put where Paul in Rom. 8:14 stated "you did not receive the spirit of bondage again," we already have the spirit that gave us physical life and breath at birth. Paul is restating the same thing here "we have received, not the spirit of the world" again....
v. 12 ...but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
v. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
v. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So isn't this "natural man" speaking of man with just the spirit/breath of life? I think so.
v. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
v. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
Hope this is helpful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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