But as for me and my household, we shall serve the Lord.

[loretta]

Joshua 24:15   But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we shall serve the Lord.

While posting my 10 best scriptures recently, I was reminded of this one, which used to be my favorite one when I was first converted about a decade ago.  I smile when I think about it.  I had all these ministry ideas in my head for myself and my family and I worked towards achieving my goals!  Needless to say, all was vanity and did surely put off several people.  It is common to see full households, even generations of households serving the Lord in Christendom. If this is a lie, then what is the truth?  Does God chose only few out of a single household? What then is the spiritual truth of Joshua 24:15?  Under the new covenant, does household refer to the family of God, after the spirit rather than the flesh.

What is the reality here on BT forum? Does this change the way we raise our kids?  Not that it makes any difference I can see, because kids will grow up the way God determines they should!  In a way it is a sweet freedom, to know that we are not responsible (are we?) for the spiritual make-up of our children. That God will be ALL in all.

[Dave in Tenn]

I think parents (and bible-readers in general) sometimes tend to forget that every generation has to "hear and do" the will of God.  Raising kids in a household that believes the great truths of God, seems to me as a non-parent who was largely raised by school, church and television, to be a great privilege and responsibility, taken on with the fruit of the Spirit in Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Long-Suffering, etc.

Believing as we do does not mean we throw our kids into the woods and let "god" raise them.  I do think it means that "we" raise them, but differently. 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html  Maybe that is a good starting "primer".

There ARE consequences of our actions and lack-of-action.  Children certainly need to learn this, and as much as possible learn to live decently and grow in wisdom. 

I'll leave off any theological comment about what this or that verse might "mean".  I'll just say that "we SHALL" serve the Lord, and its not wrong to "fear and tremble" or teach kids to...it's wrong to instill hopelessness, hypocrisy, and that other "H" word so many of us were raised on.  Soon enough, they will be the one's whom God is working in and through to do His good pleasure, though when the time comes, it may not be exactly YOUR good pleasure every step of the way.

Maybe that's a bit helpful.

[Kat]

Hi Loretta,

Joshua 24:15   But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we shall serve the Lord.

Does God chose only few out of a single household? What then is the spiritual truth of Joshua 24:15?

As head of his household wasn't Joshua commanded to teach his family the truths of God.

Deu 6:4  "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
v. 5  You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
v. 6  And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.
v. 7  You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.

Psa 78:4  We will not hide them from their children, but tell to the coming generation the glorious deeds of the LORD, and His might, and the wonders that He has done.
v. 5  He established a testimony in Jacob and appointed a law in Israel, which He commanded our fathers to teach to their children,

Yes I do believe that there are only a very few being called out and chosen, I think each individual should feel an extreme degree of thankfulness that our eyes have been opened to the truth. I don't see this calling as a matter of bringing whole families to conversion right now, but individuals. Not saying that more than one in a family cannot have their eyes opened, but from those believers I have known it just doesn't seem to be the way of it right now.

But when somebody's eyes are opened and they have been shown the light, shouldn't that be reflected on all those around them, certainly our children? I mean it is one thing to preach what we believe to family, children or friends, usually not very productive either, but we can let our light shine through example and our children/family/friends, even work associates can see Christ in us by our living a godly life, that could really make an impression, as Paul expounded us to do.

Col 3:12  Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
v.13  bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
v. 14  But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.
v. 15  And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.
v. 16  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
v. 17  And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

What I find is that I can 'teach' God's truth all the time without anybody even knowing it... as Deu. 6:7 says to teach your children "when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise," I think that means that most everything you do and say can be a teaching lesson. We know our children watch us and our example speaks louder than any words, that holds true for the rest of our family and our friends as well. Just be a living example, let them see your light shine as your testimony to the truth. Then if they come to you for advice, you can have a much greater influence, because they respect you already.

Mat 5:13  "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
v. 14  "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
v. 15  Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
v. 16  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[onelovedread]

Hi Loretta:
Do you think it's significant that should you carry out a survey on members of this forum, that you'd find that most if not all members are the only one in their (our) household that God has called out and who accept the truth of the scriptures (which He has used Ray to help us come into)?

[lilitalienboi16]

I am currently involved in the life of a three year old baby girl and blessed with the great responsibility of being called "Daddy."

Her great grandmother is a rather vulgar person and uses the Lord's name in vein very often. I often times find myself telling this little girl, "it's GOSH darnit" not "God............." well, you know how that one ends. It's difficult and she is absolutely innocent and knows little about the implications of such statement but nevertheless, its the little things. You have to start small, I think... I don't know much about this whole parenting business and I'm far from being where I want to be spiritually so sometimes It is a bit scary: To see how much someone can look up to you and trying to raise them and "train them in the way that they shall not depart from."

There is great comfort though and assurance knowing that the Lord is fully in control. My prayer for this girl, my daughter, is that the Lord bless her with a knowledge of Himself that I may never have the benefit of knowing. That He give her in ample abundance the goodness I yearn and struggle for myself. That He watch over her in a manner such that a physical fleshy father never could.

One of the things I have told myself I will not do, is shove my beliefs down the throats of others including my daughter. I will lead by example as the grace of God permits. I pray that in this manner, God will lead her as he led me unto Him and when she is ready to ask me, that I will have the answers for her.

A light on a hill is all we can do and live quietly, peaceably, with love and example for all those in our lives to see.

Anyways, that is how I start, that is what I do, with the little things. Humble beginnings I suppose.

Its challenging and when its all said and done, I have a feeling I'll be the one whom God is "training up" too.

Great thread though, thanks for the thoughts.

Alex

[lilitalienboi16]

Big AMEN to what Kat said. Thank you kat!

[microlink]

Hello,
From Kat

What I find is that I can 'teach' God's truth all the time without anybody even knowing it... as Deu. 6:7 says to teach your children "when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise," I think that means that most everything you do and say can be a teaching lesson. We know our children watch us and our example speaks louder than any words, that holds true for the rest of our family and our friends as well. Just be a living example, let them see your light shine as your testimony to the truth. Then if they come to you for advice, you can have a much greater influence, because they respect you already.

I found that raising our kids with a deep appreciation of God's word has given them a sound moral standard to live by. Although they were brought up in the "church" (WCG), they are not chosen at this time as far as I know. The beauty of teaching our children about Christ and living to a high moral code (i.e. the ten commandments) is that it serves all of society better. And in the long run it will help them when finally converted in this eon or the next one. I am happy for my kids because they live wholesome lives.

Tit_2:12  Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

[Nathan]

It is common to see full households, even generations of households serving the Lord in Christendom. If this is a lie, then what is the truth?  Does God chose only few out of a single household?

My entire family "serves the Lord" (my father, brother, uncle, etc are all pastors), yet they all persecute me for my beliefs (salvation of all, torture of none, etc) and the fact that I don't attend a church. Yes, there are entire generations in Christendom and other religions for that matter, that follow the religious traditions passed down to them, but are they serving the Lord? Here is the truth:

Matt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Those "households" in Christ's day were also "serving the Lord" (the Father), yet they were the very foes of those who followed His Son. Not much has changed in 2,000 years - those that claim to be serving the Lord persecute those who ARE serving the Lord.

What is the reality here on BT forum? Does this change the way we raise our kids?  Not that it makes any difference I can see, because kids will grow up the way God determines they should!  In a way it is a sweet freedom, to know that we are not responsible (are we?) for the spiritual make-up of our children. That God will be ALL in all.

The only change is the change in us. For those of us that had or have kids after we came to the knowledge of the truth, we will teach them those truths. For those that had kids prior to coming to the knowledge of the truth, they (hopefully) did the best they could to teach their children what they believed was righteousness. There is definitely freedom in knowing that God is completely in control, which makes being a parent that much easier, especially if you have a child that has gone astray.

[se7en]

Such excellent wisdom from all!  I love it

loretta,

I'm just going to expound upon what everyone else here is saying...

Joshua 24:15   But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we shall serve the Lord.

I believe that this "as for me and my household" is talking about the spiritual household within ourselves. Cleaning out the spiritual house and getting rid of the lying doctrines and filling the spiritual house (temple) full of the mind of Christ, His Word.

It's not necessarily about what's "out there" it's about what God does within our heavens. When we are changed by His Word/judged/chastised/loved our physical selves will reflect and walk out our beliefs.  When we fill the temple of God with the mind of Christ, we are believing and thinking the way He thinks, it's His faith in us.

I just wanted to touch on that.

[loretta]

Such profound wisdom! I'm so ecstatic.  

Thank you ALL. 

That settles it for me.  No more doubts. But I'll have to read and re-read this thread many times over to get its meat.

Alex, for your relative youth, you display rare maturity and wisdom.  Your little girl is so blessed to have a daddy like you!   So many children do not have daddies after the flesh like you.

[acomplishedartis]

Yes this was a nice thread.

and since it seems to be almost over. I hope nobody cares that I will bring this subject here rather opening a new one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think of this verse,
Could this also apply for the kids?
Do you guys think that she become a chosen because of the husband?


THE WIFE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS HALLOWED IN HIM

1 Corinthians 7:14

(Rotherham)  For the husband that believeth not is hallowed in the wife, and the wife that believeth not is hallowed in the brother: else were, your children, impure, but, now, are they, pure.


(JM-NT)  For the unbelieving husband (man void of faith) has been made set-apart and remains holy within (or: in union with) the wife, and the unbelieving wife (woman void of faith) has been made set-apart and remains holy within (or: in union with) the brother – otherwise, the consequence is your children being unclean.  Yet now they are set-apart (holy ones).



All I can tell now is that in according to how group behaviour usually works; this verse kind of make sense to me.

[gregorydc]

Moises, does this mean that as long as a person stays in the union or only if the children were born in the union?

[acomplishedartis]

Moises, does this mean that as long as a person stays in the union or only if the children were born in the union?

I don't know.
                        I think that's a difficult verse.

[acomplishedartis]

sanctified.hagiazō
    to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow, to separate from profane things and dedicate to God, consecrate things to God, dedicate people to God

    to purify

        to cleanse externally, to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin, to purify internally by renewing of the soul


The process of sanctifying/purifying seems to be a key point to me. What I can perceive is that the believer is a great positive influence over the other one, even more than what we might think because of the fact that they live together in such a close environment.

Probably the other person will not become a true believer but many of the actions of he or she will be affected on a good way (a little bit of purification there) by the great influence of the believer person.

That's what I can see so far. 

But I wanted to know what others think about it.


Moises

[loretta]

A litle bit of purification, is all I can see now!