> General Discussions
Does anyone live in the Houston, Tx area?
Nathan:
--- Quote ---ism
Definition
A word ending that indicates action, manner, condition, beliefs or prejudice. Created by people to expand meaning of words. Can be added to the end of many words.
an oppressive and especially discriminatory attitude or belief.
Catholicism, Lutheranism, Herbert W. Armstrongism, (W.W.CofG), Atheism, Judaism, , UNIVERSALISM. spiritualism........ Every one of them is a CROCK!!!!! No truth to them at all.
Hummer
--- End quote ---
When you say Universalism is a crock and there is no truth to them [it] at all, are you referring to the doctrine that all human beings will be eventually saved or one of the other definitions of the word?
Universalism:
1: a theological doctrine that all human beings will eventually be saved
2: something that is universal in scope
3: the state of being universal
Ism:
1: a distinctive doctrine, cause, or theory
2: an oppressive and especially discriminatory attitude or belief
Universalism, as in the doctrine that all human beings will eventually be saved, is definitely a distinctive doctrine, as most do not believe this to be true, but it is definitely not oppressive or discriminatory - quite the opposite.
hummer:
Nathan Look at Rene's Post. Here it is in part.
Dear Simon:
Thank you for sharing this with us. Concerning your question on Universalists coming out of the mother church before having a knowledge of the salvation of all:
I do not wish to shock you by my answer, although it might just be shocking to you and many others who read it.
Universallism is NOT the Gospel! A knowledge of the Salvation of ALL is NOT the ultimate Truth. Belief in, adherence to, and a love for, Universalism will not save anyone. There are many universalists who teach universalism with a fervor, who nonetheless, do not know what the Gospel of Jesus Christ really is!
Hummer
Nathan:
--- Quote ---Universalism is NOT the Gospel! A knowledge of the Salvation of ALL is NOT the ultimate Truth. Belief in, adherence to, and a love for, Universalism will not save anyone. There are many universalists who teach universalism with a fervor, who nonetheless, do not know what the Gospel of Jesus Christ really is!
--- End quote ---
Yes, I agree that universalism isn't the gospel and believing in universalism will not save anyone - this is true. However, universalism, or the belief that all will be saved, is not a crock, but rather the belief that universalism is the gospel is a crock. You and I can believe in universalism (salvation of all), yet we could disagree with many universalists who believe that the gospel is the belief in, adherence to and love for universalism.
The knowledge of the salvation of all is not the ULTIMATE truth, but it is a truth.
But, anyways Hummer, I think I see your thought process here and I understand what you're getting at.
lilitalienboi16:
Universalism teaches and adheres to the doctrine tat you can get to heaven (whatever that means) by believing in whatever you want.
We know this isn't true. The only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ; However, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.
In this sense, Universalism is completely wrong.
Nathan:
--- Quote ---Universalism teaches and adheres to the doctrine tat you can get to heaven (whatever that means) by believing in whatever you want.
We know this isn't true. The only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ; However, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.
In this sense, Universalism is completely wrong.
--- End quote ---
There are various definitions of universalism - some believe you can get to heaven by believing whatever you want, which of course is wrong and many believe that all will be saved eventually through Jesus Christ. Ray referenced a book on the ancient history of Universalism going back to the time of the apostles to its condemnation in the fifth general council.
--- Quote ---The Ancient History of UNIVERSALISM: From the time of the Apostles, to its condemnation in the fith general council, A.D. 553. Tracing the Doctrine down to the ERA OF THE REFORMATION, By Hosea Ballou. BOSTON: Marsh and Capen, 362 Washington St. 1829. Dow and Niles...Printers. Reprinted 1989 SAVIOUR OF ALL FELLOWSHIP, 6800 Hough Road, Almont, Mi. 48003. Available through: BIBLE MATERIAL UNLIMITED, INC.
--- End quote ---
Creationism, baptism, and monotheism are also isms that have differing views. Some creationists wrongly believe the earth is literally 6,000 years old, others know better; some believe wrongly that baptism in water saves you, others know better; some believe that monotheism is the belief in a trinity of Gods, others know better.
I think Ray's point though is that believing in universalism will not save anyone and is not the gospel. He was not saying universalism was a crock or untruthful - he was saying it is not the gospel and is not the ultimate truth.
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