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Author Topic: ray's final (posted) email response  (Read 3961 times)

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cjwood

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ray's final (posted) email response
« on: October 06, 2013, 11:00:02 PM »

for the past few nights i have been rereading the categorized listing of emails kat put together a while back.  such a deep well of tidbits of truths we can continue to dip into.  i noticed that the date on the following email to ray, and ray's subsequent response was a touch less than 2 weeks before he passed away.

even in the last days of ray's intensely unbearable pain he continued to stand on the Truths of the Holy Scriptures and what the Spirit of God through Christ has revealed.

there are a couple of previous emails from the same detractor which were written a few days before the one i am posting.

claudia


Re: Your hermeneutics
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 08:37:35 PM »
Still no scriptures to support your false teachings?  Instead you need twists and turns to deny what the bible clearly tells you in so many passages.  So how do you explain this account?

Mark 9:2-7 “Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up on a high mountain apart by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them. And Elijah appeared to them with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”— because he did not know what to say, for they were greatly afraid. And a cloud came and overshadowed them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!”
Matthew 11:11-14 ”Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.

Now we know that Moses was dead and John the Baptist was dead, so who did Jesus speak to and the disciples see?  Humble yourself before the Lord and repent Ray.  He is faithful and just to forgive.

 
Dear Phoebe:  First let's establish one thing:  You are a liar.   You state that I use "NO scriptures" to support my teachings.
The truth is that I use dozens and hundreds of Scriptures to support anything of consequence, such as doctrine.  Show me
were I say or teaching anything regarding doctrine or major subjects in which I use "NO Scriptures?"  Go ahead, show me.
You said it, now see if you can support it?

You concede that Moses and John the Baptist were dead at the time of the transfiguration on the mountain, and
you believe that this is proof that even though they are dead, they are still alive.  Phoebe, are you acquainted with
the word "contradiction?"  Well you statements are contradictions.  One cannot be alive and dead at the same time.

Did they never teach you that there are four gospel accounts and that there are four for a reason?  Did it not occur
to you that often one writer such as Matthew may contain information regarding a specific incident that Mark does
not cover?  If you would simple read Matthew's account of this transfiguration, you would plainly see how Jesus
explained to the apostles exactly what it was that they were seeing:

"And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, 'Tell THE VISION to no man, until the
Son of man be risen again from the dead" (Matt. 17:9).  It was a 'VISION,' Phoebe!  A vision is a mental image
of something, not  literally happening.

And as for John the Baptist actually being Elijah, Jesus clearly stated that, Yes, John was Elijah who was to come,
but how?   Physically, literally, in the flesh?  No, let's read it:  "And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say
the scribes that Elias must first come?  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and
restore all things.  But I say unto you, That Elias is come already , and they knew him not, but have done unto him
whatsoever they desired.  Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.  Then the disciples understood that He
spake unto them of John the Baptist" (Matt. 17:10-13).

But did they believe that a literally, physical Elijah was resurrected into the man, John the Baptist?  Of course not. It
was recorded from the beginning before John's birth exactly how he would fulfill the role of Elijah:  "And he [John]
shall go before Him in the SPIRIT AND POWER OF Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the
disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord" (Luke 1:17).

You need to study your Bible, Phoebe, and stop your lying, and condemning you know not what!

Ray

PS   No more Phoebe, I don't believe you have any interest in the Truth.
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Rhys

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 11:07:16 PM »

Thanks Claudia for finding this one

And an awesome response by Ray

Also love the PS

Rhys
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I’ve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

rick

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 11:20:37 PM »

Hello Claudia ,I been studying the lake of fire series and haven't spent time reading Rays e mails but Ray reminds me of Jesus in the gospels  always shutting up the mouth of the Pharisee's  Thanks for posting that as it reminds me How Bless Ray was of our Lord with the understanding God gave Him. 

Love and Peace from your brother in the Lord Jesus.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 01:00:48 AM »

Absolutely blown away by the spirit that moved ray expose these liars and blasphemers. What a gift from God. To be able to rightly divide the word and to wield such a powerful sword.

Thank you for sharing claudia. I am so very greatful to know the Lord has reached out and giving me the same spirit that I may hear and see these things.

And how I do miss ray!

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

moshe

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 09:19:54 PM »

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Arion

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 09:52:38 PM »

Although I miss Ray, it's not Ray himself that I miss as I never personally knew him.  For those of you that indeed knew Ray personally your certainly blessed and I know you do miss his presence.

What I do miss is the fact that there are almost no teachers out there today.  We have a famine in the land, not for bread [yet] but for the Word of God accurately presented and preached.  You can go to church after church and TV/Radio teacher after teacher and read author after author and not find the Word of God presented in truth like Ray did.

It's both aggravating and yet humbling at the same time.  I feel bad for people because they go from false teacher to false teacher and are unable to navigate through all the false doctrine and it's humbling to consider that God has brought all of us here and we've received the teaching that we have received.  And yet, I know that Ray never showed me any truth.  The first few times I came across his material I thought him to be a heretic.  After all, only a heretic would deny the truth of 'hell', right?  But after being lead into the teachings the scales began to fall from the eyes.  God will bring whom he will to knowledge of the truth.  Ray was simply a vessel.  I'm sure there are a few more such teachers out there but I've never come across any.  I've read a few of the writings of other Christian universalists but they don't hold a candle to the depth Ray's teachings as far as I'm concerned. 
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microlink

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 10:22:43 PM »

Oh yes so true. I posted this back in May:

I also miss Ray greatly. I have downloaded almost all his material and access some of it every day. I was in WCG from 1972 to 1994. I drifted from one group to another looking for more true spiritual meat and found a great deal on this web site. Thank you all, especially the moderators who take time to be of service. In the last few years Ray opened my eyes to the major problems the leadership in the WCG and it is no wonder that it splintered and shattered. He saw the corruption first hand and was not shy in telling us about it. Yes he will be missed and I pray that God will install a teacher who has the depth of spiritual understanding that Ray had.
Joe from Ottawa
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3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

santgem

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 07:27:11 AM »


But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Jhn 3:21

But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”
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Kat

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 12:37:20 PM »


Ray did have a way of straight up calling a liar/heretic what they were, no beating around the bush with him.

But I can't help but think we miss Ray so much because maybe we became spoiled a bit from his serving up all the truths to us. I mean he was working day and night researching and putting together what he understood into a easily readable form for us, all we had to do was read it and compare it with Scripture. 

What we all need to do is the same thing Ray devoted himself to doing, searching out the truth, as we know the Scripture is full to running over with things to learn. I know Ray had a special gift in teaching, but if we have the same Holy Spirit indwelling than we should be able to learn thing in the Scripture as well.

Another thing that I have found to be greatly helpful is to seek out other like minded people to study with, and this forum is a great place to meet people and develop a friendship. I feel that when I am discussing things with another believer we both gain greatly from the interaction. I have made friends with people I don't think I will ever meet, but our study time is very precious to me. This forum is extremely beneficial to my spiritual growth, but it can also be a springboard to developing friendships for further discussions.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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microlink

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 03:04:38 PM »

Kat -
AMEN. IN FACT DOUBLE AMEN!!!
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Rhys

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 04:35:27 PM »

And a triple Amen from me

Rhys
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Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Deborah-Leigh

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2013, 04:36:08 PM »


Ray points out:

"And he [John]
shall go before Him in the SPIRIT AND POWER OF Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the
disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord" (Luke 1:17).


In the SPIRIT AND POWER OF.....is not the flesh and blood OF Elias, and also not Elias's spirit and power but, THAT Spirit and Power GIVEN to BE AS Elias that is the ONE and ONLY Spirit and Power THAT IS GOD.


God is not a person. Ray made that point in the latter writings that open up an entirely new horizon to what is entirely possible for God.

Arc
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se7en

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2013, 05:02:52 PM »

Ooooh absolutely, beautiful :) 
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~Se7en

rickylittleton

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 12:48:04 PM »

One of the things I really miss of Ray is the many hours we were on the phone just talking about so many things in general. And just doing this, I learned of the insight that God had gave him. I learned from him that from his pain, there was a Divine peace that was in his heart. And that peace came from knowing what that the bible in truth taught us about our Father. God knows I miss him so much, and I know that all of the bible truth family miss him. But about 2 weeks before he died, we were talking about the second coming of Christ, and that when it happends, of the elect will have overcome all sickness and pain. Ray told me this was what he was looking for. God bless all of you. Timothy
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Rhys

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 10:45:27 PM »

One of the things I really miss of Ray is the many hours we were on the phone just talking about so many things in general. And just doing this, I learned of the insight that God had gave him. I learned from him that from his pain, there was a Divine peace that was in his heart. And that peace came from knowing what that the bible in truth taught us about our Father. God knows I miss him so much, and I know that all of the bible truth family miss him. But about 2 weeks before he died, we were talking about the second coming of Christ, and that when it happends, of the elect will have overcome all sickness and pain. Ray told me this was what he was looking for. God bless all of you. Timothy

Glad you got to talk to him, I wish I did but then I know we all have our part to play and we have each other and that sure hope of the life He promised


Rhys
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I’ve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Deborah-Leigh

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2013, 04:52:29 AM »

Death is Not THE END.

Death is AN end, of INFINITE ENDINGS.

Ray's "end" is not The end for RAY in our love for Ray....unless we want to keep Ray dead.  :(

OUR time, is not the only time. Ray can not, shall not and may not at any time, return as he WAS. THAT would reverse the making of God in HIS image that Ray is, was and ever shall be.

The notes Ray left Re A comforting note on death, is a indicator of Truth pointing beyond the human concept of time and death.

The Kingdom of God IS within. That is where to find Ray!
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indianabob

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2013, 12:41:17 AM »

Arcturus & Kat,
God is NOT a person! I agree.
So then is the Lord Jesus yet a person (a man) and a perfect reflection of God?
And will the elect individuals be persons (men/women) who have been made a perfect reflection of God?
And stand with Lord Jesus as members of the body of Christ; a perfect reflection of God?

OR will the Lord Jesus and all of his brethren be on earth the supreme personage?

A little speculation:  8)  And thus you shall be with the Lord Jesus for the age. 1 Thessalonians 4:17, John 12:26; 2 Corinthians 12:4



Ray points out:

"And he [John]
shall go before Him in the SPIRIT AND POWER OF Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the
disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord" (Luke 1:17).


In the SPIRIT AND POWER OF.....is not the flesh and blood OF Elias, and also not Elias's spirit and power but, THAT Spirit and Power GIVEN to BE AS Elias that is the ONE and ONLY Spirit and Power THAT IS GOD.


God is not a person. Ray made that point in the latter writings that open up an entirely new horizon to what is entirely possible for God.

Arc
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John from Kentucky

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2013, 01:20:49 AM »

A basic Truth of the Scriptures is that there is only One God.

Jesus (through Paul) teaches us in 1 Corinthians 8:6 that there is One God consisting of the Father of Whom are all things and Jesus by Whom are all things.

In the great Scripture of Colossians 1:15, we learn Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.  The Father is invisible and outside our physical senses.  Jesus is visible and can be seen by us.  Together they are One God.

As Jesus tells us, for those who will believe Him, I and Father are One.  (Note: an interesting topic for meditation is that Jesus is placed first in that statement before the Father.  Nothing is in the Scriptures by accident.)

We worship a marvelous God.  He can chew gum and skip rope at the same time.  ;D
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Kat

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2013, 12:16:31 PM »


Hi Bob,

Quote
God is NOT a person! I agree.
So then is the Lord Jesus yet a person (a man) and a perfect reflection of God?

So we understand that the Father is not a person/man... but I feel we cannot even really comprehend exactly what the Father is, considering "heaven of heavens cannot contain Him" (1Kings 8:27). It was the Father who determined to have this creation and bring into existence all these beings (physical and spirits) into it. As the Father has no form or voice (John 5:37), so first He brought forth a Son (John 16:28) that He gives these attributes to, as the God/Lord over it all.

I believe the Son is like as extended part of the Father, not the wholeness of the Father, but what the Father needed to have for this creation... a Son given the same form and shape that would be given to all the created beings, a God we can see and hear, that we could relate to.

Even in His glorious form the Son is in the shape of a man, both in the OT and NT.

Dan 7:9  "I watched till thrones were put in place,
       And the Ancient of Days was seated;
       His garment was white as snow,
       And the hair of His head was like pure wool.

Exo 24:9  Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel,
v. 10  and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity.

Dan 10:6  His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.

Rev 19:12  His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[5] a name written that no one knew except Himself.

Rev 2:18  "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,
    "These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:

Quote
And will the elect individuals be persons (men/women) who have been made a perfect reflection of God?
And stand with Lord Jesus as members of the body of Christ; a perfect reflection of God?

Paul tells us at the return of Christ the elect will be "changed" from mortal flesh and blood to immortal spirit beings.

1Cor 15:51  Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
v. 52  in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
v. 53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The elect will retain their individually, but will obtain their completion/perfection/incorruptibility to rule with Christ. He will have all these glorious spirit being serving under Him, as is represented symbolically as they having thrones.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

It says in Isaiah that those people under going judgment will actually see the elect/teachers.

Isa 30:20  And though the Lord gives you
       The bread of adversity and the water of affliction,
       Yet your teachers will not be moved into a corner anymore,
       But your eyes shall see your teachers.

I hope this is of help to you Bob.

mercy, peace and love
Kat



« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 06:50:27 PM by Kat »
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microlink

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Re: ray's final (posted) email response
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2013, 02:04:57 PM »

An additional scripture:

Heb_1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The word IMAGE from Strong's G5481 a graver(the tool or the person),i.e. (by impl.) engraving the figure stamped, i.e. an exact copy or [fig.] representation): - express image.
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