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Politics ?voting
mickiel:
--- Quote from: Rick on November 06, 2013, 08:35:14 PM --- Hi Mickiel
"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (The New Revised Standard Version).
"For He has set a season for every event and for every deed..." (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).
There is no wasted motion in God's creation, purpose and plan. Everything has an appointed time, and everything includes: "every purpose, every work, every matter, every event, and every deed."
I believe God cares about everything and chooses every leader in every nation on planet earth. Everything is predestined even this post.
Love and peace to all.
--- End quote ---
Greetings,
I view it differently, I don't think God cares about everything; some things I think he just does not care about. Lets just use you as an example; do you think God cares about what kind of computer you have? Do you think he cares what kind of deodorant you wear? Does he care about what kind of food you like? Does he care about how many nightclubs are in your city? Does he care what the Mayor of your town drives, and what kind of gas he puts in his car? Does he care about the leaders in every single tribe in Africa and Asia and the Forrest regions? Does he care who is leading China and why would he? Why should God concern himself with every little detail in Americas government? Why? Why should God care about picking every single Senator and every single Governor- every single year? How would " Not picking them" stop him from getting his way? Explain to me why God has to manipulate every single thing in reality? Why??
Kat:
--- Quote from: mickiel on November 06, 2013, 09:44:20 PM --- Explain to me why God has to manipulate every single thing in reality? Why??
--- End quote ---
Because He is sovereign! No human being has free will, God is the ultimate cause of all things. To say He does not care about anything in the creation is denying He is the supreme over this creation. This is His plan and this creation is going exactly as He so desires, down to the most minute detail.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, "My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,'
Eph 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Pro 16:9 A man's heart plans his way,
But the LORD directs his steps.
Pro 20:24 A man's steps are of the LORD;
How then can a man understand his own way?
Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself;
It is not in man who walks to direct his own steps.
Amo 4:13 For behold,
He who forms mountains,
And creates the wind,
Who declares to man what his thought is,
And makes the morning darkness,
Who treads the high places of the earth--
The LORD God of hosts is His name.
Isa 45:7 Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Yahweh Elohim, made all of these things." (CLV)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
Yes, God determines who the leaders of nations will be. And He does through them what He wills. He raises up kingdoms and brings them down, and He does it at the international, national, organizational, and even the personal level. He uses them for His purpose and when he is finished with them, He judges them. I'll argue again that it is not even in the slimmest realm of possibility that carnal-minded men and women can be disciples of Jesus Christ--certainly not consistently. This may be even MORE true in a democracy (or representative republic) because it takes masses of carnal-minded men and women to "give" them power, and take it away.
Whether or not it is "carnal-minded" to vote, I'll leave to your own conscience and understanding, but it is carnal-minded to think that you or I have either the wisdom or ability to determine or thwart the Will of God.
Because God is in control does NOT mean that all of his "choices" in these matters are GOOD. Much of the world (most of it, maybe) is a backdrop of Evil. How are disciples of Christ supposed to return GOOD for EVIL if Evil doesn't exist (as just one example)? Decent people yearn for GOOD, and I understand that. Not only has God put the "kings" in place, but He has put the people in place as well. Some prosper, and some suffer as time and history play out. The maturing in Christ LEARN. Their time isn't this age, but the next. This age is a cauldron of good intentions, evil intentions, good results and evil results and unintended good and evil results as well, because people are beasts and lack the true wisdom of God. All of them--including you and me.
Anyway, do what you want. You're going to anyway. And your work will be judged as well, whether good or bad.
mickiel:
Well again I am placed in a situation where I see things differently, and I apologise for that, meaning no disrespect. There are two suggestions that look to suggest that God cares about everything and must be involved in everything, and that we should not vote. In Isaiah 40: 15, " Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket, and are regarded as a speck of dust on the scales." Vs. 17, " All the nations are as nothing before him, they are regarded " By Him", as less than nothing and meaningless." Why should God care about everything nations do, if he regards them as less than nothing and meaningless? He does not care about everything that nations do. It does not mean anything to him. If I regard something as " Less than nothing", why would I try to control the less than nothing? God is not a control freak; he does according to his will, and quite frankly, he simply is not interested in everything that nations do. Daniel 4:35 " ALL the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing." There exist a side of God that takes no concern whatsoever what the earth is doing. And of course he is interested in some things. What those things are, none of us actually know. We cannot correctly say what he does not care about, nor can we correctly say that he cares about everything, and that be accurate.
In Isaiah 43:25, " I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions " For my own sake." " For my own sake", means " Interest". God is interested in doing that, forgiveness interest him. He does it for his own reasons. He is not interested in every thing humans do. He is saying here that he, for his own interest, will forgive and not even remember our sins; if he is not going to even remember them, then he does not care about them. Which may shock some. Why care about something that your going to wipe from your memory? That makes no sense.
Concerning voting and the suggestion that we should not; In Mark 12:17 " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. Right there Jesus taught that we should pay taxes, that we can be involved in government. He kept it on an equal plane in comparison; render to Caesar ( or government) and render to God; this means we can be committed to both, or be involved with both; we do not have to section ourselves off from Caesar or from government. Why should we " Render to Caesar", or government, and not be involved in picking or electing who will be Caesar, or president? What kind of sense does that make? Render is " Giving to, paying attention; its a commitment." Jesus is teaching that we can pay attention to government, we can give to government or be involved; we can vote if we want to. Jesus did not teach us not to vote. That is not in scripture. I don't know where we got that from. And let me apologise again for seeing this differently, I mean no discord. Jesus taught this plain and clear, he did not try to persuade his people to not be involved in government.
onelovedread:
If you want to vote, wy don't you just go and do so?
Does it serve any purpose to engage in a meaningless back and forth when you already have your strong views.
Ultimately, it's ALL of God.
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