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Where is Jesus came from?
santgem:
We know very well that Jesus came out from God.
Is Jesus created or birthed by the Father and what is the difference between the two?
Kat:
John 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God.
v. 28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father." (NKJV)
John 16:27 for the Father Himself is fond of you, seeing that you are fond of Me, and have believed that I came out from God."
v. 28 I came out from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I am leaving the world and am going to the Father." (CLV)
John 16:28 I came forth out of the Father, and have come into the world,—Again, I leave the world, and go, unto the Father.
v. 29 His disciples say—See! now, openly, art thou speaking, and, not a single similitude, art thou using: (Rotherham)
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. (NKJV)
John 8:42 Jesus, then, said to them, "If God were your Father, you would have loved Me. For out of God I came forth and am arriving. For neither have I come of Myself, but He commissions Me." (CLV)
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them—If, God, had been your father, ye had been loving me, for, I, from God, came forth, and am here; for, not even of myself, have I come, but, he, sent me forth. (Rotherham)
Here is an interesting Scripture.
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
"These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: (NKJV)
Rev 3:14 And to the messenger of the ecclesia in Laodicea write: 'Now this is saying the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, and God's Creative Original:" (CLV)
Rev 3:14 And, unto the messenger of the assembly, in Laodicea, write:—These things, saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness the beginning of the creation of God: (Rotherham)
And one more Scripture that does indicate that the Son had a start, was First.
Rev 2:8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
"These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: (NKJV)
Rev 2:8 And to the messenger of the ecclesia in Smyrna write: `Now, this He is saying Who is the First and the Last, Who became dead, and lives:" (CLV)
Rev 2:8 And, unto the messenger of the assembly, in Smyrna, write:—These things, saith the first and the last, who became dead, and lived: (Rotherham)
Here is a place in the LOF that Ray mentioned this.
http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html ----------------
WHO IS ANTIPAS?
"I know your works and where you DWELL, even where SATAN’S SEAT [throne] is: and you hold fast My name, and have not denied My faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr [Gk: ‘witness’], who was slain among you, WHERE SATAN DWELLS" (Rev. 2:13).
But how do we know that this is Jerusalem, and not the literal city of Pergamos to whom this message is addressed?
Because God gives us the same proof as when He tells us that,
"their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, WHERE also our Lord was crucified" (Re. 11:08).
And "where" was that? Jerusalem.
Where ever "Antipas" was martyred, is where Satan dwells and has his throne. But just who is Antipas? "Antipas" is not translated. It is the same word in the Greek Manuscripts. It is a compound word: "antee" and "pas." Antee carries the meaning of being ‘in place of another,’ and pas is from pater meaning ‘father.’ And so Antipas is speaking of one who is here in the place of his father. Who might that be?
"I came forth FROM the Father…" (John 16:28).
"Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He was come FROM God, and went to God" (John 13:3).
"But now I go My way to Him that SENT ME..." (John 16;5).
"No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is IN THE BOSOM of the Father, he has declared [unfolded or revealed] Him" (John 1:18).
"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love Me; for I PROCEEDED FORTH AND CAME FROM God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me" (John 8:42).
"God… has in these last days SPOKEN UNTO US BY HIS SON…" (Heb. 1-1-2).
It is absolutely Scripturally clear that it is Jesus Christ who came "in the place of" His Father to reveal His Father to us. Jesus Christ is the Antipas.
The phrase "faithful martyr" is a proper translation, however the word translated "martyr" is from the Greek martus and is translated martyr only three times, but is translated "witness" twenty-nine times, for that is what its meaning is—a witness.
So Antipas, has come in the place of the Father. And Antipas is God’s faithful witness. And Who does the Scripture tell us is the "faithful witness" of God? Answer:
"And from JESUS CHRIST, Who IS THE FAITHFUL WITNESS…" (Rev. 1:5).
And Antipas, Jesus Christ, was martyred IN JERUSALEM. Satan’s throne and dwelling place is in JERUSALEM!
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
From the Nashville '08 conference:
There are some unique things about the universe. We learn in Hebrews that God made everything that is was made from that which does not appear. In other words that’s saying it’s made of things that you can’t see, it’s invisible things. But it was made of something, it wasn’t made of nothing. I find Christian scientists and fundamentalist Christians alike insisting that this one site on the Internet and the very name of it, has to do with creation out of nothing. No, God did not create it out of nothing. Hebrews said it was created out of things that are not seen, invisible.
Now God is spirit and it says plainly in the new testament God is invisible. Now, can we then conclude that the universe came out of God? Well yes. Notice Romans 11, it plainly says so and we don’t need to speculate about this, this is clear. Well it may not be as clear in the King James, but it’s clear in all other Scriptures whether you go to Concordant, the American Standard Version, Rotherham, the Diaglott, they all say the same thing.
Rom 11:36 For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory forever. Amen. (KJV)
It says, “Of Him and through Him.” The Greek is for out of Him. For out of Him and through Him and for Him. It says to Him, but it should be for him. It should be out, through and for… not of, through and to. “For out of Him, and through Him and for Him is all.” Not are all things. “…Is all. To Him be glory for the eon, Amen.” So, what is out of Him? ALL is out of Him.
Now turn to John 17:8. In Revelation 3:14 we learn that Jesus Christ is “the beginning of the creation of God.”
John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.
Jesus said “I came out from Thee.” Where did Jesus come from? Did He come out of the Virgin Mary, is that where Jesus really came from? No. I mean I know that people believe that is where Jesus came from, out of the Virgin Mary. He did, but He was before that. Jesus plainly says “I came out from Thee,” the Father. He came out of the Father and He was before He became the Messiah. He was sent to be the Messiah from back in the Old Testament times.
It plainly says He was conceived of or by the Holy Spirit of God the Father. We’re in John 17:8, back up a couple verses and Christ says,
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.
He was glorified in His Father before there was a world, it says so. In Philippians it said He was made.
Php 2:7 But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
It means emptied. He emptied Himself of His divinity and became in the form of man. That isn’t where He came from, He didn’t originate in a human baby. He emptied Himself into a little baby to become in the form of a man.
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mickiel:
--- Quote from: santgem on October 31, 2013, 05:26:04 AM ---We know very well that Jesus came out from God.
Is Jesus created or birthed by the Father and what is the difference between the two?
--- End quote ---
I think he was " Birthed" by the Father, when he said that he " Proceeded forth and came from God", that sounds like a birth to me. In John 5:26 Jesus said " For just as the Father has life in himself, even so he GAVE to the Son to have life in himself." If God had to give that to Jesus, it means he did not always have it. In John 6:57 Jesus again states that " He lives because of the Father." Which I think means he did not always live. He came out of God, out from inside of him, which means that whatever God's Spirit substance is, then Jesus is of that same substance, and we can safely assume that substance, whatever it is, its eternal. And the Father gave him self substaining eternal life. Jesus is called the first born, and humanity is destined to be born again. I often wonder just what a Spirit is?
microlink:
Thanks mickiel.
I have not thought of this scripture in that way.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
The Father GAVE Him life.
Cool.
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