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Author Topic: Where is Jesus came from?  (Read 5487 times)

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2013, 08:12:08 PM »

There is a couple down the street that just had a baby.  They are not fretting over whether their baby was born, made, formed, or came out of them.  Nor do they doubt they have a baby.

The Son has existed as long as He has had a Father, same as you and me.  The Father has been a Father as long as He's had a Son, same as yours and mine.  He's not done having children, kinda like a another couple down the street who have 7, the oldest having just turned 13.  Wouldn't be surprised to learn another one is on the way.  They have nothing on the God Family, however.   :)

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

santgem

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2013, 03:44:21 AM »


Hi santgem,

Isa 43:10  "You are My witnesses," says the LORD,
       "And My servant whom I have chosen,
       That you may know and believe Me,
       And understand that I am He.
       Before Me there was no God formed,
       Nor shall there be after Me.

Thanks for bringing that Scripture out, I don't think I have noticed it before. It does show that the Son was "formed" or made, He did have a beginning.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Hello Kat,

Thank you for your reply. As of this moment i am still struggling to know the difference. Well for me that two words birth and create are two different words.

As for now i will connect the verse that you commented with other verses and i would like very much for the opinion of others also. I am learning more. :)


Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (YHWH), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I AM he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses"

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD (YHWH), the first, and with the last; I AM he."

Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, my called; I AM he; I am the first, I also am the last."

Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I AM he that doth speak: behold, it is I. "

Jesus Himself said, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Jhn 8:58

Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. Hsa 13:4

Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. Isa 45:21-22

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psa 2:7

Isaiah 45:22 "I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me (YHWH) every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Zechariah 12:10 "And I (YHWH) will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced"

Malachi 3:6 "I am the LORD (YHWH), I change not."
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santgem

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2013, 04:01:06 AM »

There is a couple down the street that just had a baby.  They are not fretting over whether their baby was born, made, formed, or came out of them.  Nor do they doubt they have a baby.

The Son has existed as long as He has had a Father, same as you and me.  The Father has been a Father as long as He's had a Son, same as yours and mine.  He's not done having children, kinda like a another couple down the street who have 7, the oldest having just turned 13.  Wouldn't be surprised to learn another one is on the way.  They have nothing on the God Family, however.   :)

Thanks Dave for the reply,

Yes, the Son has existed as long as He has had a Father and Father has been a Father as long as He's had a Son.

But let me borrow Kat post by Ray.

Because, quite frankly, if Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then when did He become the Son of God?  Well you will say, ‘when He was born.’  No, He was called the Son before that.  So how then, was wisdom necessary to make a Son?  Well where did He come up with the idea of a Son anyway?  Where did He come up with the idea of a family?  Well He did, because we are here and we have family relationship and so on.  Where did He come up with that?   Did mothers and fathers and children and aunts and uncles and cousins did they exist before the creation of the heavens?  No.  Well then God came up with that.


In the case of Jesus it is a different scenario. Jesus can be called the Son even He actually born.
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Kat

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2013, 11:34:59 AM »


Hi santgem,

When you think that the Son was "formed"... "the Beginning/Original/Head/Chief of the creation of God" (Rev 3:14) it was because He was brought forth the very first and then the Son was used to do all the rest of this creation work. So He is "the first and the last," because it is who the Father brought forth to be over the creation, always.

How could He say in Isaiah 44:6 "beside Me there is no God"? Because you have to understand that the word God is a title and when the Son speaks of God it can include the Father and Son.

This is from the conference 'Who and What is Jesus..." Ray really put this together well, so it can be understood.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html --------

John 20:17  Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

So you think the Father had a God? Come on. Somebody will say, ‘well how could you be God and you have a God, you are lesser than God, so it can’t be.’ Yes you can. 

We have to learn what it means to take the title God, it’s more of a title, like somebody’s last name. God’s name is not God. God is a title. God is the same title that the heathers use. In the Hebrew it’s EL - Elohim, El is singular, God, Elohim is plural. What did the pagans call their god? elohim, they called them el and elohim. 
v

ONE GOD!

If Jesus is God and the Father is God and we read in the Bible about God, how do we know who it is? How do we know? 
So we need to clarify some of these things.
v

Here’s an interesting thing in Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.” That can be plural because it says, Elohim, “let ‘Us’ make man in ‘Our’ image.” It’s a plural pronoun, right? What’s interesting is you come down to chapter 2 and it says;

Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah/Elohim made earth and heaven.

Jehovah? Did they just slip that in there? Now in Genesis 1:1, Elohim created the heaven and the earth. In chapter 2, Jehovah/Elohim. So we have Elohim in chapter 1, now we have Jehovah/Elohim. 

I know I’m going to get this really out of sequence here, but I have to go with the flow as God inspires me. So I’ll just talk about it here. I mean we are being introduced here to what is really happening. But most people just don’t see it, they just don’t get it.

So we have God created. We always think of God as being the Father, always God and Jesus Christ. But here in the OT when God spoke to Moses, it wasn’t God the Father. Because He spoke to him and no man has ever heard the Father and we already showed 18 verses, that proves Christ existed before humans existed. He was at the beginning. He is the beginning. He is the Alpha, you see. He is the beginning of the creation of God. He is the Firstfruit.

So when it says God - Elohim, who is it talking about? It’s the ‘We’ and the ‘Us.’ Elohim is the ’We’ and the ’Us.’   So it’s BOTH!

What have we learned in 1 Cor 8:6? All is out of ek ex - out of God, through Jesus. Keep it all together, just go over it and cross reference your Bible. Make a list of a couple of scriptures, next to the ones you are real familiar with, so you will remember those. So you will start to remember some of this stuff. Remember what we learned in the first chapter of Hebrews? You see, as we go over this more and more it will start to click with you.

Heb 1:1 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers.

What, there’s another one. God spoke unto our fathers? Who is this God here? This is Theos, this is the God the Father, this is not Jesus Christ. In the NT Theos is God the Father, except where it says our God (Theos) and Savior, then it’s talking about Jesus Christ. But this God here is God the Father. He spoke unto our fathers? Who spoke unto our fathers? Jesus Christ! Is this a contradiction? No. The speaking came out of God, through the Son, because He’s the Spokesman.
 
You got to get it out of your head that God is the name of Jesus’ Father. God is not the name of Jesus’ Father. God is a title that is used even by the pagans. Baalim was a theos, Zeus was a theos, all these pagan gods were theos’ and elohims and els and adonay too.
 
But usually when it talks about God as Lord, it’s Adonay, not Adon. But you see the Lord God and that shouldn’t be really Lord. Because it’s just confusing, because sometimes you have ‘the Lord God’ or it will say ‘my God is Lord,’ in psalms. It’s Jehovah(Adon), but they didn’t want to say ’the Lord is Lord,’ or I think it is something like that. So they changed it to God, no, but it should be Jehovah Adonay. But since they always translate Jehovah to Lord, it would have come out Lord Lord and they didn’t think that sounded right. There is just no consistency or not very good consistencies sometimes in the KJ. That’s where Concordant is very good. The Concordant does not translate it, they call it Elohim. They leave it right there in the Hebrew, Elohim. But notice this;

Heb 1:3  who being the brightness of His glory (speaking of Jesus Christ) and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Okay back to verse 2.

Heb 1:2  has in these last days spoken to us by His Son(God), whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He (who? God) made the worlds;

Who is the “by whom?” Jesus Christ. But who did it? God. How? Through Christ. So who did it? They both did it, that’s why it is Elohim. “In the beginning Elohim…” God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, created the universe. It was out of God, through His Son. Both. They are both the One God. Well why does it introduce, here in chapter 2, that the heaven and the earth was created by Jehovah/Elohim? Because it’s letting us know who the Son is, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear and all that.

So Jesus Christ is being introduced to us here. Why? Because He’s going to start talking. To who? To Adam and then to Eve, you see. He’s the spokesman and for the next 50 verses or whatever and maybe many more than that, it’s always the Lord God or Jehovah/Elohim.
v

It’s a title. We say even the pagans use God as a title or theos or elohim or el. They used all of these different language words for their gods, it a title. That’s why Paul said, “as there are gods many, and lords many…” (1 Cor 8:5) in the world and they knew what he was talking about. He said, “for us there is but one God…” And since Christ came to tell us who He is, we know who it is, it’s the Father! Out of whom, out of/ek ex, whom is all things. 

Jesus Christ is a thing.  He is the Son of God, the very image of Him. Well if He is something, where did He come from? Out of GOD! Where did everything else come from?  Through Christ! Jesus is Jehovah. Jehovah what? Jehovah/Elohim! Who is His Father? His Father, is the Father, Elohim! Fair enough.

They are one God, because you can’t have two different perfections. There is only one perfection. When you reach ultimate perfection, that’s God. There is only one such ultimate perfection. If you are a part of that perfection, you are God. That’s what God is, perfect. Jesus Christ is perfect, the express absolute total assumption of His Father That makes Him God. It isn’t something He acquired, on His own. But I do believe He did a lot. And His Father gave Him those powers, when He was able to handle them. 
We are to be given power, when we prove that we can handle it.
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 12:25:01 PM by Kat »
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onelovedread

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2013, 12:18:01 PM »

Maybe I am limited (I'm sure I am) but I find myself more confused and less edified after going through this thread. I sure hope the original poster has benefited from the responses.
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santgem

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2013, 04:13:08 AM »

Maybe I am limited (I'm sure I am) but I find myself more confused and less edified after going through this thread. I sure hope the original poster has benefited from the responses.


Hi JohnChris,

I was hoping that responses benefited me, but in my opinion no one is dare to exactly hit the target.
The  situations are understandable, we are limited and the end is that it will lead us only to arguments. I do appreciates contributors and respected their opinion because i am here seeking for an answer.

We have to understand and to really know God. Is it not what He wants?
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2013, 04:22:22 AM »

Yes, Jesus was "son" before He was born in Bethlehem.

It's even conceivable that He gained wisdom through struggle before he grew up in Nazareth.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 04:24:33 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

santgem

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2013, 06:00:11 AM »

Yes, Jesus was "son" before He was born in Bethlehem.

It's even conceivable that He gained wisdom through struggle before he grew up in Nazareth.

Greetings Dave in Tenn,

Indeed, Jesus was "son' before he was born in betlehem:

Jesus is also;

Son of God
Son of the Father
Everlasting Father
Father of Eternity
Mighty God
Son of the living God
Living God
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santgem

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2013, 07:57:23 AM »


Hi santgem,

When you think that the Son was "formed"... "the Beginning/Original/Head/Chief of the creation of God" (Rev 3:14) it was because He was brought forth the very first and then the Son was used to do all the rest of this creation work. So He is "the first and the last," because it is who the Father brought forth to be over the creation, always.

How could He say in Isaiah 44:6 "beside Me there is no God"? Because you have to understand that the word God is a title and when the Son speaks of God it can include the Father and Son.

This is from the conference 'Who and What is Jesus..." Ray really put this together well, so it can be understood.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html --------

John 20:17  Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

So you think the Father had a God? Come on. Somebody will say, ‘well how could you be God and you have a God, you are lesser than God, so it can’t be.’ Yes you can. 

We have to learn what it means to take the title God, it’s more of a title, like somebody’s last name. God’s name is not God. God is a title. God is the same title that the heathers use. In the Hebrew it’s EL - Elohim, El is singular, God, Elohim is plural. What did the pagans call their god? elohim, they called them el and elohim. 
v

ONE GOD!

If Jesus is God and the Father is God and we read in the Bible about God, how do we know who it is? How do we know? 
So we need to clarify some of these things.
v

Here’s an interesting thing in Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.” That can be plural because it says, Elohim, “let ‘Us’ make man in ‘Our’ image.” It’s a plural pronoun, right? What’s interesting is you come down to chapter 2 and it says;

Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah/Elohim made earth and heaven.

Jehovah? Did they just slip that in there? Now in Genesis 1:1, Elohim created the heaven and the earth. In chapter 2, Jehovah/Elohim. So we have Elohim in chapter 1, now we have Jehovah/Elohim. 

I know I’m going to get this really out of sequence here, but I have to go with the flow as God inspires me. So I’ll just talk about it here. I mean we are being introduced here to what is really happening. But most people just don’t see it, they just don’t get it.

So we have God created. We always think of God as being the Father, always God and Jesus Christ. But here in the OT when God spoke to Moses, it wasn’t God the Father. Because He spoke to him and no man has ever heard the Father and we already showed 18 verses, that proves Christ existed before humans existed. He was at the beginning. He is the beginning. He is the Alpha, you see. He is the beginning of the creation of God. He is the Firstfruit.

So when it says God - Elohim, who is it talking about? It’s the ‘We’ and the ‘Us.’ Elohim is the ’We’ and the ’Us.’   So it’s BOTH!

What have we learned in 1 Cor 8:6? All is out of ek ex - out of God, through Jesus. Keep it all together, just go over it and cross reference your Bible. Make a list of a couple of scriptures, next to the ones you are real familiar with, so you will remember those. So you will start to remember some of this stuff. Remember what we learned in the first chapter of Hebrews? You see, as we go over this more and more it will start to click with you.

Heb 1:1 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers.

What, there’s another one. God spoke unto our fathers? Who is this God here? This is Theos, this is the God the Father, this is not Jesus Christ. In the NT Theos is God the Father, except where it says our God (Theos) and Savior, then it’s talking about Jesus Christ. But this God here is God the Father. He spoke unto our fathers? Who spoke unto our fathers? Jesus Christ! Is this a contradiction? No. The speaking came out of God, through the Son, because He’s the Spokesman.
 
You got to get it out of your head that God is the name of Jesus’ Father. God is not the name of Jesus’ Father. God is a title that is used even by the pagans. Baalim was a theos, Zeus was a theos, all these pagan gods were theos’ and elohims and els and adonay too.
 
But usually when it talks about God as Lord, it’s Adonay, not Adon. But you see the Lord God and that shouldn’t be really Lord. Because it’s just confusing, because sometimes you have ‘the Lord God’ or it will say ‘my God is Lord,’ in psalms. It’s Jehovah(Adon), but they didn’t want to say ’the Lord is Lord,’ or I think it is something like that. So they changed it to God, no, but it should be Jehovah Adonay. But since they always translate Jehovah to Lord, it would have come out Lord Lord and they didn’t think that sounded right. There is just no consistency or not very good consistencies sometimes in the KJ. That’s where Concordant is very good. The Concordant does not translate it, they call it Elohim. They leave it right there in the Hebrew, Elohim. But notice this;

Heb 1:3  who being the brightness of His glory (speaking of Jesus Christ) and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Okay back to verse 2.

Heb 1:2  has in these last days spoken to us by His Son(God), whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He (who? God) made the worlds;

Who is the “by whom?” Jesus Christ. But who did it? God. How? Through Christ. So who did it? They both did it, that’s why it is Elohim. “In the beginning Elohim…” God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, created the universe. It was out of God, through His Son. Both. They are both the One God. Well why does it introduce, here in chapter 2, that the heaven and the earth was created by Jehovah/Elohim? Because it’s letting us know who the Son is, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear and all that.

So Jesus Christ is being introduced to us here. Why? Because He’s going to start talking. To who? To Adam and then to Eve, you see. He’s the spokesman and for the next 50 verses or whatever and maybe many more than that, it’s always the Lord God or Jehovah/Elohim.
v

It’s a title. We say even the pagans use God as a title or theos or elohim or el. They used all of these different language words for their gods, it a title. That’s why Paul said, “as there are gods many, and lords many…” (1 Cor 8:5) in the world and they knew what he was talking about. He said, “for us there is but one God…” And since Christ came to tell us who He is, we know who it is, it’s the Father! Out of whom, out of/ek ex, whom is all things. 

Jesus Christ is a thing.  He is the Son of God, the very image of Him. Well if He is something, where did He come from? Out of GOD! Where did everything else come from?  Through Christ! Jesus is Jehovah. Jehovah what? Jehovah/Elohim! Who is His Father? His Father, is the Father, Elohim! Fair enough.

They are one God, because you can’t have two different perfections. There is only one perfection. When you reach ultimate perfection, that’s God. There is only one such ultimate perfection. If you are a part of that perfection, you are God. That’s what God is, perfect. Jesus Christ is perfect, the express absolute total assumption of His Father That makes Him God. It isn’t something He acquired, on His own. But I do believe He did a lot. And His Father gave Him those powers, when He was able to handle them. 
We are to be given power, when we prove that we can handle it.
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Thank you Kat,

I am rereading the nashville conference 2007. Again, i encountered the word begotten. Jesus is the  only begotten  Son  of God.


Heb 1:5  For unto which of the angels…

Remember we talked about the angels called, sons of God shouting for joy and appeared before God. You know when they were talking about Job and so on. They were sons of God, angelic beings. “But unto which of the angels said he at any time, you are my son, this day have I BEGOTTEN you…” Created? No, begotten! You may not know about this Greek word, in the Greek there is no separate word for begotten and born, same word. 
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2013, 09:33:47 PM »



Greetings Dave in Tenn,

Indeed, Jesus was "son' before he was born in betlehem:

Jesus is also;

Son of God
Son of the Father
Everlasting Father
Father of Eternity
Mighty God
Son of the living God
Living God

Son of Man
The Man
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2013, 10:13:18 PM »


Hi santgem,

Quote
Again, i encountered the word begotten. Jesus is the  only begotten  Son  of God.

Heb 1:5  For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are My Son, today I have begotten(G1080) You"? Or again, "I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son"?

Strong's
G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.


Webster on e-Sword

BEGET', v.t. pret. begot, begat; pp. begot, begotten.

1. To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; as, to beget a son.

2. To produce, as an effect; to cause to exist; to generate; as, luxury begets vice.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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santgem

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2013, 05:43:32 AM »


Hi santgem,

Quote
Again, i encountered the word begotten. Jesus is the  only begotten  Son  of God.

Heb 1:5  For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are My Son, today I have begotten(G1080) You"? Or again, "I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son"?

Strong's
G1080

γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.


Webster on e-Sword

BEGET', v.t. pret. begot, begat; pp. begot, begotten.

1. To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; as, to beget a son.

2. To produce, as an effect; to cause to exist; to generate; as, luxury begets vice.

mercy, peace and love
Kat


Hello Kat,

Thanks again for that post.
 Actually in my understanding It is ONLY Jesus  that is actually begotten or born of God. He is not merely created. Ray said that "No, our final destination is to be BORN into the Kingdom of God". Ray did not say that our final destination is to born of God but be BORN in the Kingdom of God.

Sonship?

« on: May 25, 2007, 10:33:17 PM »

Hey Ray,

I am listening to your sermons on the Origins of Jesus as I write. But something caught my ear that I hope you can clear up. You stated something along the lines that we will not be adopted into the family of God as the Angels were, but that we will be begotten and that that is a far more intimate relationship with God. Can you then please explain the following scriptures?
 
Romans 8:15 “For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”
 
Romans 8:23  “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”
 
Galatians 4:5 “To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”
 
Ephesians 1:5 “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will”
 
Strong’s dictionary does not give any alternate definitions for the Greek. I of course am not refuting your statements but maybe I misunderstand you. My understanding is that to be “begotten” is quite different from being “adopted.” Thanks for your time.Roy


        Dear Roy:  Yes, Strong's does give an alternate to "adoption" for the word "unibotheia," and in fact the "alternate" is his FIRST definition is "the PLACING OF A SON...SONSHIP." 

         Webster's New Twenteth Century Dictionary Unabridged:"sonship"--"the STATE OF BEING A SON"

        Romans 8:15....

        "But you have received a spirit of SONSHIP"  (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible)

         "...but a Spirit which makes us SONS"  (The New English Bible)

         "...you have received the Spirit of SONSHIP"  (Moffatt Translation)

         "...you received the Spirit of SONSHIP" (New International Version)

         "...but you received a Spirit of SONSHIP" (Emphatic Diaglott).

         "...but you got the spirit of SONSHIP" (Concordant Literal New Testament) Etc.

         We are not merely adopted into the Family of God, but rather God has "BEGOTTEN us" [Gk: 'beget, be born--regenerate']" (I Pet. 1:3). And:  "Being BORN AGAIN [same Greek word], not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God..."  (Verse 23).

        No, our final destination is to be BORN into the Kingdom of God, not just an "adoption." Some bibles do not ever use the word "adoption."  Even if we were to accept these Scriptures as "adoption," we still have the added knowledge that we are to be BORN into the Kingdom of God.

         We are all "called," but is that our final destiny?  No, there is also (in addition to the called) those called ones who are CHOSEN, and even among the chosen, there must be the FAITHFUL (Rev.17:14).  Judas was called and chosen, but he was NOT FAITHFUL UNTIL THE END!!

        Hope this helps your understanding.

        God be with you,

        Ray
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santgem

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Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2013, 05:58:19 AM »



Greetings Dave in Tenn,

Indeed, Jesus was "son' before he was born in betlehem:

Jesus is also;

Son of God
Son of the Father
Everlasting Father
Father of Eternity
Mighty God
Son of the living God
Living God

Son of Man
The Man


Bro. Dave greetings,

Yes, Jesus is the Son of Man , The Man....

If we are to call Him maybe this is not enough;

 JESUS IS... OUR ADVOCATE !Jn. 2:1
JESUS IS... ALMIGHTY Rev. 1:8 - Mat.28:18
JESUS IS... ALPHA AND OMEGA Rev.1:8 -22:13
JESUS IS... AMEN Rev. 3:14
JESUS IS... APOSTLE OF OUR PROFESSION Heb. 3:1
JESUS IS... ATONING SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS 1 Jn.2:2
JESUS IS... AUTHOR OF LIFE Acts 3:15
JESUS IS... AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF OUR FAITH Heb.12:2
JESUS IS... AUTHOR OF SALVATION Heb. 2:10
JESUS IS... BEGINNING AND END Rev. 22:13
JESUS IS... BLESSED AND ONLY RULER 1 Tim. 6:5
JESUS IS... BREAD OF GOD Jn. 6:33
JESUS IS... BRIDEGROOM Mt. 9:15
JESUS IS... CAPSTONE Acts. 4:11-1Pet. 2:7
JESUS IS... CHIEF CORNERSTONE Eph. 2:20
JESUS IS... CHIEF SHEPARD Eph. 2:20
JESUS IS... CHRIST 1Jn. 2:22
JESUS IS... CREATOR Jn. 1:3
JESUS IS... DELIVERER Rom. 11:26
JESUS IS... ETERNAL LIFE 1 Jn. 1:2-5:20
JESUS IS... GATE Jn.10:9
JESUS IS... FAITHFUL WITNESS Rev. 3:14
JESUS IS... FAITHFUL AND TRUE Rev. 9:11
JESUS IS... FIRST AND LAST Rev.1:17-2:8-22:13
JESUS IS... FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD Rev.1:5
JESUS IS... FIRSTBORN OVER CREATION Col.1:15
JESUS IS... GOD Jn. 1:1-20:28- Heb.1:8 Rom.9:5
JESUS IS... THE GOOD SHEPARD Jn. 10:11,14
JESUS IS... GREAT SHEPARD Heb. 13:20
JESUS IS... GREAT HIGH PRIEST Heb. 4:14
JESUS IS... HEAD OF THE CHURCH Eph. 1:22-4:15-5:23
JESUS IS... HEIR OF ALL THINGS Heb. 1:2
JESUS IS... HOLY AND TRUE Rev. 3:7
JESUS IS... HOLY ONE Acts 3:14
JESUS IS... HOPE 1 Tim. 1:1
JESUS IS... HOPE OF GLORY Col.1:27
JESUS IS... HORN OF SALVATION Luk.1:69
JESUS IS... IAM Jn.8:53
JESUS IS... IMAGE OF GOD 2 Cor.4:4
JESUS IS... IMMANUEL Mt.1:23
JESUS IS... JUDGEOF THE LIVING AND DEAD Acts 10:42
JESUS IS... KING ETERNAL 1 Tim. 1:17
JESUS IS... KING OF ISRAEL Jn. 1:49
JESUS IS... KING OF THE AGES Rev.15:3
JESUS IS... LAMB Rev. 13:8
JESUS IS... LAMB OF GOD Jn. 1:29
JESUS IS... LAMB WITHOUT BLEMISH 1 Pet.1:19
JESUS IS... LAST ADAM 1 Cor. 15:45
JESUS IS... LIFE Jn. 14:6 -Col. 3:4
JESUS IS... LIGHT OF THE WORLD Jn. 8:12
JESUS IS... LION OF THE TRIB OF JUDAH Rev.5:5
JESUS IS... LIVING ONE Rev. 1:18
JESUS IS... LIVING STONE 1Pet. 2:4
JESUS IS... LORD 2Pet. 2:20
JESUS IS... LORD OF GLORY 1Cor. 2:8
JESUS IS... LORD OF LORDS Rev.19:16
JESUS IS... MAN FROM HEAVEN 1Cor. 15:48
JESUS IS... MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT Heb. 9:15
JESUS IS... MIGHTY GOD Isa.9:6
JESUS IS... MORNING STAR Rev. 22:16
JESUS IS... OFFSPRING OF DAVID Rev. 22:16
JESUS IS... ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD Jn. 1:18-1Jn. 4:9
JESUS IS... OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR Titus 2:13
JESUS IS... OUR HOLINESS 1Cor. 1:30
JESUS IS... OUR HUSBAND 2Cor. 11:2
JESUS IS... OUR PROTECTION 2Thess. 3:3
JESUS IS... OUR REDEMPTION 1 Cor.1:30
JESUS IS... OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS 1Cor. 1:30
JESUS IS... OUR SACIFICED PASSOVER LAMB 1Cor. 5:7
JESUS IS... POWER OF GOD 1Cor. 1:24
JESUS IS... PRECIOUS CORNERSTONE 1Pet.2:6
JESUS IS... PROPHET Acts 3:22
JESUS IS... RABBI Mt.26:25
JESUS IS... RESURRECTION AND LIFE Jn.11:25
JESUS IS... RIGHTEOUS BRANCH Jer.23:5
JESUS IS... RIGHTEOUS ONE Acts 7:52-1Jn. 2:1
JESUS IS... ROCK 1Cor. 10:4
JESUS IS... ROOT OF DAVID Rev.5:5-22:16
JESUS IS... RULER OF GODS CREATION Rev.3:14
JESUS IS... RULER OF KINGS OF THE EARTH Rev.1:5
JESUS IS... SON OF DAVID Lk.18:39
JESUS IS... SON OF MAN Mt.8:20
JESUS IS... SON OF MOST HIGH GOD Lk.1:32
JESUS IS... SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR BELIEVERS Heb.5:9
JESUS IS... THE STONE BUILDERS REJECTED Acts.4:11
JESUS IS... TRUE BREAD Jn.6:32
JESUS IS... TRUE LIGHT Jn.1:9
JESUS IS... TRUE VINE Jn.15:1
JESUS IS... TRUTH Jn.1:4-14:6
JESUS IS... WAY Jn. 14:6
JESUS IS... WISDOM 1Cor.1:24
JESUS IS...THE WORD Jn.1:1
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 03:49:45 PM by santgem »
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2013, 10:10:02 AM »


Hi santgem,

Yes, "the only begotten." The Son is quite unique and He is the Firstfruits of the kingdom with many/all yet to come.

1Cor 15:20  But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

James 1:18  Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Matt 13:38  The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom...

James 2:5  Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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se7en

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  • Posts: 287
Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2013, 11:14:41 AM »

JESUS IS... BEGINNING AND END Rev. 22:13
JESUS IS... ALPHA AND OMEGA Rev.1:8 -22:13
JESUS IS... FIRST AND LAST Rev.1:17-2:8-22:13
JESUS IS...THE WORD Jn.1:1

I love all the "Jesus Is" statements. But those I would have to say are some of my top favorites!  If Jesus is the beginning and the end... He's also everything else in between. The first Adam and the last Adam . He lives His life in each and every person, at their appointed time.

He starts it all, and finishes it all. MY LORD AND MY GOD!!! Creator and sustainer and worker of EVERYTHING.

It's beautiful, puts a big smile on my face :)  thanks for this thread guys!
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~Se7en

microlink

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  • Posts: 230
Re: Where is Jesus came from?
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2013, 01:18:41 PM »

Santgem,

Good job on all those scriptures referencing Jesus Christ.
Must have taken a long time to put it together.
Enough meat in that list for years of bible study.
Thanks.
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3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
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