> General Discussions
IN the day of Great slaughter, when the towers fall
Dave in Tenn:
Good to meet you, Doug. Sounds to me like you well may have had a "great tribulation", and that it might well not be over. Dig into the Lake of Fire series. Check all the scripture references and see if what Ray is saying reaches you. Read Matthew 24 again with new eyes. He's no longer talking to the masses along with the disciples, but to the disciples alone.
Mat 24:1-3 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
If that makes sense to you, then keep reading the chapter. What I need to know about the "Great Tribulation" I find there.
zvezda:
Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
I used to think that everything was business as usual and then suddenly the flood came, but when I reread Mat 24:38, I noticed something....
In Mat 24:38, it says everything was business as usual until the day that Noah entered the ark, it doesn't say everything was business as usual until the flood came. Actually there was a seven day gap period between the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came.
Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said to Noah, Take all your family and go into the ark, for you only in this generation have I seen to be upright.
7:4 For after seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, for the destruction of every living thing which I have made on the face of the earth.
7:7 And Noah, with his sons and his wife and his sons' wives, went into the ark because of the flowing of the waters.
7:10 And after the seven days, the waters came over all the earth.
--- Quote from: Kat on November 02, 2013, 09:56:24 PM ---The church has spoke of great tribulation and world turmoil... was that what happened before the flood?
--- End quote ---
What happened during the seven day gap? The Bible is silent about that. But what we know is that everything was business as usual until Noah entered the ark, and then something changed and people stopped having normal lifestyle during the next seven days, people didn't know what's going on until the flood came.
So I am wondering if it will be the same during end times - people will stop having normal lifestyle at some point, and then there will be a gap period between that point and the return of Jesus. Will the elect enter into a "safe place" (spiritually?) just like Noah entered into the ark before the gap period starts? And what will happen during the gap period? Didn't Ray also think that the day of the Lord comes after the great affliction?
http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm
Let us be clear, that the "day of the Lord" is the time period of Christ’s return to this earth to punish Babylon the Great and to pour out His righteous indignation on her (and on those nations who follow and worship her) for her evil crimes of inhumanity and blasphemy. Here is the order of events (Mat. 24:29-30). It’s as simple as one, two, three:
1. "Immediately AFTER the affliction [great affliction, or great tribulation--ver. 29], of those days ...
2. "... the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken ...
3. "And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory."
The "day of the Lord," the day that the Lord comes, clearly is "after" the great affliction, and "after" the heavenly signs. The book of Joel gives us a second confirmation:
"Alas! Alas! Alas for the day! For near is the DAY OF THE LORD.
And as devastation from Him Who-Suffices is it coming" (Joel 1:15).
"For coming is the DAY OF THE LORD! A day of darkness and gloominess. A day of clouds and murkiness" (Joel 2:2).
"The heavens quake, The sun and the moon are somber, and the stars gather in their brightness ... before His army [Rev. 19:11] (Joel 2:10) ...
"And He will spare His people" (2:18).
"And I will give MIRACLES IN THE HEAVENS above, And signs on the earth, Blood and fire and pillars of smoke, The sun shall be turned to darkness, And the moon to blood (2:30-31), BEFORE the coming of the DAY OF THE LORD, the great and fearful day" (2:30-31).
So we have this event neatly book-ended with references to the "great affliction" and the "heavenly signs." Matt. 24:29 clearly tells us that "immediately AFTER" the great affliction or tribulation of those days, the signs in the sun, moon and stars occur, followed by the return of Christ--the day of the Lord. And Joel 2:31 clearly tells us that the signs in the heavens occur "BEFORE" the coming of the day of the Lord. As to the chronology of these grand events, there can be no honest dispute--the day of the Lord does not include the great tribulation, but comes after the great tribulation, and after the heavenly signs.
We have already shown in Scripture that the great tribulation ends at our Lord’s advent, it does not begin. Nor is the tribulation ushered in, as a thief, three and one half years earlier or seven years earlier. It is our Lord’s "coming" that is as a thief, not "tribulation." "Gloominess" and "darkness" during the time of the day of the Lord is not the main aspect of the figure of a thief or even a minor aspect of this figure of a thief. The Bible tells us plainly what the figure represents. It is representative of "when He comes" -- "His coming"! Nothing else.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Doug on November 03, 2013, 07:37:53 AM ---This is my first post. I'll do an introduction soon. Since my teen's I have feared a "Great Tribulation". Now at about 60 years old it is an even greater concern. Death does not really bother me but God has lead me thru what has been a not so easy life. It has been my thought God would not spare me from end time troubles. Reading Bible Truths I have not been clear as to Ray's thoughts. Kat's remarks has given me pause to think maybe things are not going to be as I had feared. I come out of the WWCG which could put the fear of God in you. It would be good to hear from other as to their understanding.
I am thankful for God leading me to this site and feel a connection to many on this site. There will be more questions on a number of subjects and look forward to everyone's help.
Doug
--- End quote ---
Hello Doug and welcome to the forums. It seems you chose a rather difficult topic to make your introduction. I apologize for that seeing as I am the one who started this discussion. It is a rather complicated one and one I would not consider, milk, fit for babes in Christ.
That being said, I wanted to encourage you.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Isaiah 41:13 "For I am the Lord your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, DO NOT FEAR; I WILL help you."
You should fear God, as in have "aw and respect" for Him. Do not fear Him, as if you would fear a man who has come to do you harm. God is good and God is love.
Luke 18:19 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."
Nahum 1:7 "The LORD is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble; he knows those who take refuge in him."
1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
1 Corinthians 13:8 "Love NEVER fails."
Despite these things;
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that WE MUST THROUGH MUCH TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of God.
Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and COMPANION IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."
John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION: but BE OF GOOD CHEAR; I have overcome the world."
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Tribulations are a part of the journey. You are in good company here, do not fear :)
Hebrews 12:5-11 "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."
Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Welcome aboard doug, It's all apart of the journey.
Judgement has began upon the house of God
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
so rejoice that you are blessed to be apart of it now, for if we should be judged now, we shall not be judged later (Great white throne judgement).
1 Cor 11: 31-32 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such THE SECOND DEATH HATH NO POWER, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
God bless,
Alex
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: zvezda on November 03, 2013, 09:12:26 AM ---Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
I used to think that everything was business as usual and then suddenly the flood came, but when I reread Mat 24:38, I noticed something....
In Mat 24:38, it says everything was business as usual until the day that Noah entered the ark, it doesn't say everything was business as usual until the flood came. Actually there was a seven day gap period between the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came.
Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said to Noah, Take all your family and go into the ark, for you only in this generation have I seen to be upright.
7:4 For after seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, for the destruction of every living thing which I have made on the face of the earth.
7:7 And Noah, with his sons and his wife and his sons' wives, went into the ark because of the flowing of the waters.
7:10 And after the seven days, the waters came over all the earth.
--- Quote from: Kat on November 02, 2013, 09:56:24 PM ---The church has spoke of great tribulation and world turmoil... was that what happened before the flood?
--- End quote ---
What happened during the seven day gap? The Bible is silent about that. But what we know is that everything was business as usual until Noah entered the ark, and then something changed and people stopped having normal lifestyle during the next seven days, people didn't know what's going on until the flood came.
So I am wondering if it will be the same during end times - people will stop having normal lifestyle at some point, and then there will be a gap period between that point and the return of Jesus. Will the elect enter into a "safe place" (spiritually?) just like Noah entered into the ark before the gap period starts? And what will happen during the gap period? Didn't Ray also think that the day of the Lord comes after the great affliction?
http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm
Let us be clear, that the "day of the Lord" is the time period of Christ’s return to this earth to punish Babylon the Great and to pour out His righteous indignation on her (and on those nations who follow and worship her) for her evil crimes of inhumanity and blasphemy. Here is the order of events (Mat. 24:29-30). It’s as simple as one, two, three:
1. "Immediately AFTER the affliction [great affliction, or great tribulation--ver. 29], of those days ...
2. "... the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken ...
3. "And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory."
The "day of the Lord," the day that the Lord comes, clearly is "after" the great affliction, and "after" the heavenly signs. The book of Joel gives us a second confirmation:
"Alas! Alas! Alas for the day! For near is the DAY OF THE LORD.
And as devastation from Him Who-Suffices is it coming" (Joel 1:15).
"For coming is the DAY OF THE LORD! A day of darkness and gloominess. A day of clouds and murkiness" (Joel 2:2).
"The heavens quake, The sun and the moon are somber, and the stars gather in their brightness ... before His army [Rev. 19:11] (Joel 2:10) ...
"And He will spare His people" (2:18).
"And I will give MIRACLES IN THE HEAVENS above, And signs on the earth, Blood and fire and pillars of smoke, The sun shall be turned to darkness, And the moon to blood (2:30-31), BEFORE the coming of the DAY OF THE LORD, the great and fearful day" (2:30-31).
So we have this event neatly book-ended with references to the "great affliction" and the "heavenly signs." Matt. 24:29 clearly tells us that "immediately AFTER" the great affliction or tribulation of those days, the signs in the sun, moon and stars occur, followed by the return of Christ--the day of the Lord. And Joel 2:31 clearly tells us that the signs in the heavens occur "BEFORE" the coming of the day of the Lord. As to the chronology of these grand events, there can be no honest dispute--the day of the Lord does not include the great tribulation, but comes after the great tribulation, and after the heavenly signs.
We have already shown in Scripture that the great tribulation ends at our Lord’s advent, it does not begin. Nor is the tribulation ushered in, as a thief, three and one half years earlier or seven years earlier. It is our Lord’s "coming" that is as a thief, not "tribulation." "Gloominess" and "darkness" during the time of the day of the Lord is not the main aspect of the figure of a thief or even a minor aspect of this figure of a thief. The Bible tells us plainly what the figure represents. It is representative of "when He comes" -- "His coming"! Nothing else.
--- End quote ---
Post retracted. I could not find what I thought I read here on bible truths. Apologies. I was mistaken!
Dave in Tenn:
Alex, from where do you get that the moon is symbolic of God's elect?
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