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[arion]

I would also add that much or even most of the Christian church is focused on externals and not internals.  They are consumed with various prophetic utterances and flitting from teacher to teacher for more insight.  They want to know who the beast is, who the false prophet is and debate who the anti-christ could be.  ect, ect, ect.  This is simply bread and circuses for those that have at least some spiritual insight. 

BUT....they almost never deal with the internal issues that each and everyone of us must face if we are to be an overcomer.  As we know, the beast that must be overcome is the beast within.  What I have to overcome is my carnal flesh and self.  What I have to overcome is who I am at the core of my being.  These are the struggles we face and not so much the external ones.  Way to much of a beast and anti-christ on the inside of me than to try to figure out where prophecy fits in.

And obviously the overcoming is all of God.  And that is why we are instructed to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.  Emphasis on the fear and trembling because if God doesn't do it [the overcoming] in us then it's not going to get done.  No problem with people that want to look into these different issues because I was once consumed with many such things.  What I am and how far I have yet to go in my walk takes most of the time that used to be spent on the things that intrigues Christendom.  And absolutely no offense to anyone who spends time on these issues, it's just that I've got bigger fish to fry with what God wants me to be.

All that being said we can see the writing on the wall as to where this nation is headed and it's not going to get any better.  Because of the fact that the rapture [as taught by Christendom] is a fallacy we know we are in for some hard times in the future.  Because of this I lay aside for those hard times and prepare the best that I can for the chaos to come.  It's just that I'm not consumed about it.  As long as God is still on his throne his will shall be done.

[AwesomeSavior]

Hi Alex:

As far as anything in Scripture relating to the NATURAL form of prophecies, I always remember a verse in the book of Daniel. Daniel 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased". You could make the case that in the last 100 years, people have been running to and fro (travel), and there also has been a knowledge explosion (technology), unlike any other time in human history. Of course, for us internally, there has been a knowledge explosion (coming out of Mystery Babylon, and slowly understanding the meat of the Word, etc.)

Dean

[lareli]

So in regard to the natural vs the spiritual or the external vs the internal, Im curious to know what anyone thinks about the parts in scripture that talk about a coming time that will be so bad 'such as has never been before nor will ever be again'... or 'had those days not been shortened no flesh would be saved'... and 'those are the ones who were beheaded for Christ' etc. etc.

Does anyone believe that there will not be a period of tribulation in which Gods judgement will be poured out onto the Earth in the physical, natural, external? But instead that it will all be spiritual and internal and personal for each person?

[indianabob]

Folks,
I have enjoyed the recent exchange of ideas and quotes that have stimulated another thought which should perhaps be on a separate thread.

The Bible teaches that the purpose of resurrecting all who have lived is to teach them righteousness. So what type of environment do we imagine will be required to teach righteousness? People have to have love, food and shelter and then appropriate leadership which Lord Jesus will provide.
Is anything else that we have become accustomed to in this modern world necessary? Seriously, do we need air travel, computers, large religious buildings or multi story office sky scrapers in order to maintain a much reduced but growing population that is living off of the land provided by God's bounty and learning God's plan for the people of the planet and a pure language and most of all righteousness?

I think we will not need factories belching smoke and really anything that pollutes either the environment or our minds. What say you?

Indiana Bob

[John from Kentucky]

Folks,
I have enjoyed the recent exchange of ideas and quotes that have stimulated another thought which should perhaps be on a separate thread.

The Bible teaches that the purpose of resurrecting all who have lived is to teach them righteousness. So what type of environment do we imagine will be required to teach righteousness? People have to have love, food and shelter and then appropriate leadership which Lord Jesus will provide.
Is anything else that we have become accustomed to in this modern world necessary? Seriously, do we need air travel, computers, large religious buildings or multi story office sky scrapers in order to maintain a much reduced but growing population that is living off of the land provided by God's bounty and learning God's plan for the people of the planet and a pure language and most of all righteousness?

I think we will not need factories belching smoke and really anything that pollutes either the environment or our minds. What say you?

Indiana Bob

You're killing me I-Bob.

Sounds like North Korea.....or Bucharest on a Saturday night.

I also suppose no drinking, no dancing, no card playing, no holding hands, no laughter.  Definitely no bikinis.   

A veritable Christian paradise!

[Dennis Vogel]

Folks,
I have enjoyed the recent exchange of ideas and quotes that have stimulated another thought which should perhaps be on a separate thread.

The Bible teaches that the purpose of resurrecting all who have lived is to teach them righteousness. So what type of environment do we imagine will be required to teach righteousness? People have to have love, food and shelter and then appropriate leadership which Lord Jesus will provide.
Is anything else that we have become accustomed to in this modern world necessary? Seriously, do we need air travel, computers, large religious buildings or multi story office sky scrapers in order to maintain a much reduced but growing population that is living off of the land provided by God's bounty and learning God's plan for the people of the planet and a pure language and most of all righteousness?

I think we will not need factories belching smoke and really anything that pollutes either the environment or our minds. What say you?

Indiana Bob

God is called The Creator and God is making man in "Our Image." God is "reproducing Himself" as Ray likes to say.

I don't know what awaits us but I'm sure we'll be productive. This un-comprehensibly large universe will be put to use.

Just laying around Heaven with nothing to do would be Hell.

[Kat]

Hi Bob,

Don't be so quick to throw out all the modern conveniences, yet... yes these things are misused and in many ways to promote wrong doing now, but in the next age things will be a whole other story. All these things that are being developed is according to God will/plan and the rule of Christ would assure that they would be put to proper use. Since the world will still be physical when Christ rules it, maybe most of these technological advances would have a practical use for those serving physically... I think they would appreciate the comforts and advancements that we take for granted. God may be bringing about advancements now that could mainly be for its good use in the next age?


Hi largeli,

If you look at the passage in Matt 24 as Jesus giving His disciples a warning of what is to come to them in their lifetime as well as what would come at the end of the age, you get a better understanding of it. Taking one verse out is hard/impossible to gain an understanding of it as there is a couple of different things spoken of.

Jesus first had brought up the destruction of the temple and the disciples ask Him a couple of questions and He gave them answer in sequential order of what they ask. First they ask for Him to "tell us, when will these things be," the thing He had just spoke of, the destruction of the temple. Then they ask Him another question, what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Two distinct questions... maybe they didn't even realize it, thinking the end of the age was when the temple/Jerusalem would be destroyed, but that's the way I see Jesus answering with the two separate events. That to me is how to better understand what is being said, and not mixing the whole passage to be speaking of one thing, as the disciple thought it would be.

mercy, peace and love
Kat