> General Discussions
Just need to vent how about you?
loretta:
--- Quote from: theophilus on December 20, 2013, 08:39:32 AM ---
To give you an example, a husband cheats on his wife. The wife is devastated, the kids are torn, etc, etc. Say the husband knows that he has no free will. The husband explains to his wife that he had no choice in the matter. He did what he did because he has no free will. If anyone, God should be blamed since He was the one directing his steps. You wouldn't like to be the wife in this example listening to her husband "excuse", would you? Neither would I!
--- End quote ---
Neither would I. But it's this free-will thing and understanding the absolute sovereignty of God that has helped me weather a recent crisis that was building up in my marriage. Not that I am making any excuses for his behavior (or mine), nor is he, but it has kept me from overreacting (no free-will there either! :) ). My attitude right now is one of grace and understanding while showing tough love (if you knew me, this is completely alien to me!). God has taken me through the twists and turns of life that has brought me to this point in my life and I really don't know how life is going to turn out on the morrow. As I was so kindly reminded, it helps to just take one day at a time.
--- Quote from: Pierdut on December 20, 2013, 08:25:50 PM ---
Ray taught that there is only one way that every event in a person's life will go, and God already knows how it will turn out, and so there are no multiple paths (or two paths in life).
--- End quote ---
Pierdut is right, there are no two paths in life. Yes, we are constantly faced with multiple choices, but because of where we are at that particular time in our life, hemmed in by the circumstances caused by God on the one hand and our un-regenerate selves on the other, we can and do make only one choice, that God knew (caused) all along we would make. Yeah with our limited vision, sometimes it does seem that some choices are good, while others are bad, but these are the twists and turns that God uses to change us, to mold us, to purge us, to renew us, to bring us to a particular place.
Yes, we do weave our own webs, terrible as it may seem, but God does provide the spiders silk.
--- Quote from: Arion on December 21, 2013, 06:17:05 AM ---
When I was younger I had wished that I made different choices in life. Now that I'm getting older, I can look behind me and see that the things that happened were a necessary part of my development.
But it gives me great peace of mind to know that my choices are already predetermined. Not that it absolves any accountability for my choices but the peace comes from knowing that nothing I do can screw up God's plan for me.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I am on God's timeplan, and that is so comforting.
rick:
I find the learning process is not easy and timely, its amazing how truths I learned here, can be challenged with certain post I read. No doubt it takes time and thought blended with experience for truths to become deeply rooted.
I suppose its noble for one to think the ability is theirs to choose always, to do that which is right in God’s sight. However this line of thought no doubt leads back to Christendom where man or women reaches up to God.
I believe the things Ray has said or written not because Ray said it or wrote it but because Ray proved it through scripture using many scripture that cannot be disputed except by those who are not being dragged or drawn by God because the things of God are foolishness to the unbeliever.
I find in every post a vast difference in spiritual knowledge and I the least of such wonderful knowledge. I find within myself a profound thankfulness for those of you, my spiritual brothers and sisters who correct me directly or indirectly so as to keep my understanding moving forward in God’s truths.
There are certain post I read which leads me to believe I can through my own will even though my will is subjected to God’s will choose to do the right thing in every situation, I do go back and forth with such notions that somehow there is within myself this ability .
If such ability does exist, I have failed to find it in the course of my life. If one can reference the part in the lake of fire series or in any of Ray’s e-mails or anywhere on this site that proves to me through scripture that this ability does exist, please point it out to me.
I find examples given can be for me deceiving in that it leads me back to the ( who I am beast ).
No doubt all examples are given with good intention but any example given that would lead me to believe I can somehow change the will of God or go against the will of God in my life is just plain wrong as noble as it may sound.
My life is predestine and if predestine which part of predestine can I change ? Which sin can I not commit ? Which prayer can I not pray ? What word can I not speak ? Has God predestine a !/3 of my life or maybe !/2 my life or perhaps 2/3 of my life ? Has God predestine 3/3 of my life?
If 3/3 has been predestine then what ever is said regardless of how noble it sounds is beyond any ability I would have to make any change In me.
Its just as I said in the beginning of this thread, I can’t change one thing about me, not one word not one deed, absolutely nothing.
Peace and love to all.
theophilus:
--- Quote from: Rick on December 20, 2013, 02:41:44 PM --- Hi Theophilus,
Your example is something I been dwelling on these past few weeks not about someone committing adultery but rather are we given the opportunity to travel on two paths in this life, both of which are of God but not always by God ?
Lets keep it simple and use your example about the man who has committed adultery, The man loves his wife but has and issue with lust of women, He knows inwardly to be with a women outside of his wife is wrong and so now he is confronted with a choice.
Is his life predestine on one path to say no, and on the other path to say yes ? Can he choose of his own will which is subjected to Gods will to take either path ?
I think of a man who drinks to the point where its causing issues in his relationship with his wife and his drinking is causing problems on the job, his wife threatens to leave him if he continues drinking all the time, his boss threatens to fire him.
The man knows he will loose everything in his life and will become devastated if he continues on this path of drinking.
The logical thing to do is stop drinking immediately however he continues to drink, why does he keep drinking ?
Is there another force at play here ? Or does he has a choice to take the other path which is alcohol free ?
These two paths make much sense to me but I have not found it in Rays papers yet, I’m hoping Ray has written something along these lines.
I understand what your meaning is about a defeatist attitude and I know the beast within can be quite deceiving and many times I ask myself, why do I do the things I do ?
The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak as the good book says and sometimes I wonder if the flesh is to weak to take the other path, the right path.
I remember Elmer Fudd , I think that was the name but he always said ( what a terrible web we weave for ourselves )
Thank you Theopilus for the correction.
Peace and love to all.
--- End quote ---
Hello Rick,
continuing with the example, the husband has two choices in front of him. It's a struggle because his flesh wants to sin but his spirit wants to do the right thing. I believe that whatever path the husband CHOOSES to follow is the path that God had determined for him to follow. But the man definitely makes a choice; and does so of his own will.
As regards the drinking man, either path represents a potential choice. God already knows the man's choice but the man doesn't know it until he makes it.
theophilus:
Hi Loretta,
we share the same belief regarding the phantom free will. I was on my last leg at work. I was on suspension. This ending week I failed to achieved 100 % production at work. This means come Monday I will be terminated. What to do? what to do? Get mad? get sad? get worried? Paul tells me not to worry about anything. I got rent, bills, child support, etc, etc; I will be left without health insurance, and so will be my minor daughter. It's no good in my 'hood! Yet I don't doubt it is of God. But it's very hard. :'(
DougE6:
"To give you an example, a husband cheats on his wife. The wife is devastated, the kids are torn, etc, etc. Say the husband knows that he has no free will. The husband explains to his wife that he had no choice in the matter. He did what he did because he has no free will. If anyone, God should be blamed since He was the one directing his steps. You wouldn't like to be the wife in this example listening to her husband "excuse", would you? Neither would I!"
God is not interested in anyone belonging to him being an adulterer or a fornicator. Adultery and fornication are sins of the flesh. If you are committing these you are in the flesh and not the spirit. Frankly, it is impossible for those in the spirit to commit these sins. So, if anyone commits these sins, they are in the flesh.
God is sovereign. He has ordained your life's path. Granted. BUT... Do you want to live in the flesh or in the spirit?
Is it possible that God has ordained your life's path to include these sins? Of course! Otherwise it would not happen.
Judge yourself!! God's sovereignty should be leading you into walking in the spirit and not in the flesh more and more if He has chosen you to be with Christ when He returns. Christ is looking for a pure bride. So weep if you are doing acts like adultery. Weep! NEVER EVER say...well I blame God's sovereignty. Granted this knowledge of God's sovereignty if present in others or in us should help us to deal with more grace with others weaknesses or maybe to give other's more grace. But never ever counsel and say..well this is God's desire for me/you to do these sins! To the sin committing sinner, the fact that one is doing such things should only be a HUGE wake up call.
I understand that sometimes God waits until the 11th hour to help deliver us or much more time goes by than seems reasonable. If one is learning to love righteousness and hate wickedness even in this time of weakness, sure ...good work is being done. Granted. Sometimes we need to see for ourselves our own wickedness and God's lets us store up a whole lot of sin before delivering us...
YET...
I do not understand all this focus on God's sovereignty. Please do not misunderstand me here. I feel God's sovereignty is not a hard understanding!
The death of the beast is a hard understanding! If my beast is dead, the proof of that is not if I believe in God's sovereignty, or use it to justify myself. The proof of a dead/dying beast is if I am living in the spirit and NOT doing the works of the flesh. The beast cannot let Christ rule nor does it submit to Christ...and Christ is not an adulterer. Believing in God's sovereignty is easy. Resting in His sovereignty in righteousness...is MUCH HARDER. Judging oneself and letting God destroy the beast and ruling man of sin and the beastly nature is HARD. So let God's sovereignty SHOW you how weak/fleshly/sinful your heart is... not so that you can just accept your fleshliness but so you will pray and pursue and beg Him to change your heart into something better! If one has no desire to do this...well, we ALL go through dry spells that may/must be necessary for our spiritual growth,...maybe in a dry spell counterfeit comfort can be gained by saying to oneself..this is God's plan for me to be so controlled by the flesh, but I don't see any scriptures anywhere that even hint even in a most put the blame for our sins on God. I just think that is in RETROSPECT looking back on my life I can say that everything that happened was planned and purposed...but in everyday living..well God can judge you because it is your heart that is evil, not his, and you are doing the works, so repent.
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