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Just need to vent how about you?
Dave in Tenn:
The house that's built on the sand has to fall. There will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. You're not going through anything that's outside the purpose of God for you. But He doesn't leave us or forsake us even when it feels like He has.
Keep going. If you want to do good and not do evil, then that is a good thing. There are more surprises in store for you, I think. They will be also tailor-made for you in the details, but not uncommon for believers. We don't grow up all at once. All we are promised is a "happy ending". I hope a good portion of it comes to you before resurrection. Happy are the meek, etc. Happy are they who read the book of this Testimony. "Rejoice in all things...and again, I say rejoice." Don't make me quote the whole Bible. :D
arion:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on November 19, 2013, 12:22:04 PM ---I'm not into this "fear and trembling" thing.
God tells us in Philippians 4:6 not to worry about anything.
--- End quote ---
You may not like this 'fear and trembling thing' but it is as scriptural as the verses that you shared, unless of course you believe that some scriptures are true and some are not. All these scriptures harmonize one with the other. If we don't believe that then we are left as the various denominations fighting over what the word of God says.
Ray taught on this in the Nashville 2007 conference;
.....God puts us in the same situation, we have to live our lives. You may say, well I’ll just kill myself. Not unless God wants you to, you can’t kill yourself if God doesn’t want you to. Everybody that ever killed themselves, it was after God said... okay, now you are going to kill yourself.
He is in control of EVERTHING, through circumstances. He doesn’t make anyone kill themselves against their will, no. But He puts them into situations where they can’t tolerate life anymore and their own will becomes, I want to kill myself.
[Someone ask the question: Is that why Christ was always in prayer?]
Well yes, it’s like the old saying; act like it all depends on you and pray like it all depends on God. That’s the way you should live your life. He could not help but pray.
What appears to be contradictions are not contradictions, when you have a higher spiritual understanding of what it’s talking about. Let me show you a perfect example and it sounds like a contradiction, but it’s not.
Phi 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Doesn’t that contradict this whole thing... we’re saved by grace and not of works? Now we’re to work out our own salvation? What is that? How do you explain that “Of Myself I can do nothing” (John 5:30)? And He said "YOU can do nothing" (John 15:5), to the apostles. Then Paul says “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Well it does sound like a contradiction. But read the next verse and He tells us why. "For" now that word always means ‘because' or it’s another word for because.
Phi 2:13 For (because) it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Some of you probably still don’t get the answer, but it is there. "Work out your own salvation," is not the gist of that saying. He is not saying, work out your own salvation, period. No, He’s saying “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, that’s where the emphases is, on fear and trembling, not on working out your own salvation.
You work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, why? Because it all depends on God! If God doesn’t do it, it won’t happen, IT WON’T HAPPEN! So we live in fear and trepidation.
I cannot drive down the street, being the safest driver that I can be and know that I will avoid an accident, if God has already determined I’m going to have one. What it doesn’t mean is you can drive down the road foolishly... or you don’t need to wear a seat belt... or close your eyes for a while... or something like that. But you do have to act it out. Why? You have to, He makes you.
He made you come out of your mother’s womb and He made you cry. Not that He forced you, but circumstances, He brought about all the circumstances. He made you cry, makes you grow and makes you fight with your kid brother.
You do all these things and people reach a place where they get tired of it. So we have plays like ‘Stop the world I want to get off.’ It's like I’ve had enough, I’m at the end of my rope and it’s the end of the line. Well it’s only the end of the line IF God has determined it’s the end of the line.
If say you came to that conclusion at 8:30, and He knows you won’t die until your 77 1/2, then you're not going to end it.
That’s where the fear and trepidation come in. It ALL depends on God, there’s nothing you can do. But YOU have to work it out. YOU have to get up and go to work. YOU have to do all this stuff.
Then you say I don’t want to anymore, well circumstances make you. So you think, I’ll just end it all... then your child comes up and says ‘Mommie.’ Now you say, oh my gosh I have a child, I can’t kill myself I’ve got to live for my child. You see? So God makes you live this life. He makes you do all this, HE MAKES YOU DO IT. But not against your will. He puts you in circumstances and that’s the only way you can go. The ONLY way!
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34384.html#msg34384
microlink:
--- Quote from: Arion on November 20, 2013, 06:26:29 AM ---
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on November 19, 2013, 12:22:04 PM ---I'm not into this "fear and trembling" thing.
God tells us in Philippians 4:6 not to worry about anything.
--- End quote ---
You may not like this 'fear and trembling thing' but it is as scriptural as the verses that you shared, unless of course you believe that some scriptures are true and some are not. All these scriptures harmonize one with the other. If we don't believe that then we are left as the various denominations fighting over what the word of God says.
Ray taught on this in the Nashville 2007 conference;
.....God puts us in the same situation, we have to live our lives. You may say, well I’ll just kill myself. Not unless God wants you to, you can’t kill yourself if God doesn’t want you to. Everybody that ever killed themselves, it was after God said... okay, now you are going to kill yourself.
He is in control of EVERTHING, through circumstances. He doesn’t make anyone kill themselves against their will, no. But He puts them into situations where they can’t tolerate life anymore and their own will becomes, I want to kill myself.
[Someone ask the question: Is that why Christ was always in prayer?]
Well yes, it’s like the old saying; act like it all depends on you and pray like it all depends on God. That’s the way you should live your life. He could not help but pray.
What appears to be contradictions are not contradictions, when you have a higher spiritual understanding of what it’s talking about. Let me show you a perfect example and it sounds like a contradiction, but it’s not.
Phi 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Doesn’t that contradict this whole thing... we’re saved by grace and not of works? Now we’re to work out our own salvation? What is that? How do you explain that “Of Myself I can do nothing” (John 5:30)? And He said "YOU can do nothing" (John 15:5), to the apostles. Then Paul says “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Well it does sound like a contradiction. But read the next verse and He tells us why. "For" now that word always means ‘because' or it’s another word for because.
Phi 2:13 For (because) it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Some of you probably still don’t get the answer, but it is there. "Work out your own salvation," is not the gist of that saying. He is not saying, work out your own salvation, period. No, He’s saying “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, that’s where the emphases is, on fear and trembling, not on working out your own salvation.
You work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, why? Because it all depends on God! If God doesn’t do it, it won’t happen, IT WON’T HAPPEN! So we live in fear and trepidation.
I cannot drive down the street, being the safest driver that I can be and know that I will avoid an accident, if God has already determined I’m going to have one. What it doesn’t mean is you can drive down the road foolishly... or you don’t need to wear a seat belt... or close your eyes for a while... or something like that. But you do have to act it out. Why? You have to, He makes you.
He made you come out of your mother’s womb and He made you cry. Not that He forced you, but circumstances, He brought about all the circumstances. He made you cry, makes you grow and makes you fight with your kid brother.
You do all these things and people reach a place where they get tired of it. So we have plays like ‘Stop the world I want to get off.’ It's like I’ve had enough, I’m at the end of my rope and it’s the end of the line. Well it’s only the end of the line IF God has determined it’s the end of the line.
If say you came to that conclusion at 8:30, and He knows you won’t die until your 77 1/2, then you're not going to end it.
That’s where the fear and trepidation come in. It ALL depends on God, there’s nothing you can do. But YOU have to work it out. YOU have to get up and go to work. YOU have to do all this stuff.
Then you say I don’t want to anymore, well circumstances make you. So you think, I’ll just end it all... then your child comes up and says ‘Mommie.’ Now you say, oh my gosh I have a child, I can’t kill myself I’ve got to live for my child. You see? So God makes you live this life. He makes you do all this, HE MAKES YOU DO IT. But not against your will. He puts you in circumstances and that’s the only way you can go. The ONLY way!
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34384.html#msg34384
--- End quote ---
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. [/color]
Yes all is of God. We have our part and it is as God wills in us.
"God is responsible we are accountable" - One of my favourites from Ray.
rick:
Hi Arion.
Thanks for your post, what a learning experience that was for me. No doubt being apart of B.T. is a great blessing for me, I’m thankful I did this thread as the understanding I received from everyone’s responses help me very much.
Thanks again Arion for how you explained things I appreciate it very much.
Love and peace to all. :)
Stacey:
Hey Rick, I sure am glad you vented. :) Thanks.
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