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Author Topic: Just need to vent how about you?  (Read 49112 times)

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rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2013, 11:52:16 PM »

                                                                  Hi Kat,

I see every fruit of the spirit in me that is mentioned in the bible but also some fruits of the flesh too. I get confused sometimes when I hear this talk of works. At this point I do believe God does it all through us, but having said that I will also say so much I don't know or understand but I trust more in God today than yesterday, for all that happens in my life.

All I say is the lords will be done in me as its done in heaven. If God does not show me then how can I know but if God does show me then how can I not know ?

Anyways you have me thinking about the things you said. You know, the more I learn here the more I realize how much I don't know.


Love and peace to all.
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DougE6

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2013, 01:40:24 PM »

Hi Rick

you wrote "I think if God wants me to sit on the couch, can I do otherwise ? Or if God wants me to jump off the couch can I do otherwise ?"

Clearly God is the arranger of circumstance and your will will respond just how He knows you will, but I am not sure how productive it is to think in the manner as that paste off your prior post implies.

None of us know what God has planned for anyone of us for tomorrow or next year or even 5 minutes from now. Maybe He is going to arrange circumstances so that a deep character flaw festering inside will come to the surface and you will act on it. With some very negative consequences for you or others. 

The actual point of God's action may have been to show you what was in your heart so you could repent. So you could experience first hand the consequences and the pain that disobedience and practicing sin will cause you and others. Or maybe to show again how ruled you are by your weaknesses. Or all of the above.  Or other things to be revealed later.

I don't think thinking...this was God's will for me to do this and so I had no choice...so I did it... is the productive approach.  Knowing full well that He is the arranger and causer of circumstance and you are the learner and the repenter and the one needing discipline and judgement is the correct attitude.

As Ray has said...God does not hold hold a gun to our heads.  We always make a choice, and this choice reflects our inner values and whether we are led of the spirit or our flesh. So we OWN our choice because we MADE it, even if it was a lock that we would make that choice.  If we make a disobedient choice then we need to repent that that weakness is in us... we are not in the spirit and we are in the weak weak flesh.

So I think the productive approach is always to try with EFFORT to choose the good. If I fail, then I know that I am either in the flesh contrary to what I think of myself or I need some more work done inside. Of course repent and ask God for the help is the key. But if you never try to resist, if you do not struggle,  if you say..this is merely God's plan that I do this sin...how will you ever deeply learn the lessons?

I think the doctrine of God's sovereignty must never be used as an excuse not to try to give effort.  Or not to work with what God has given you to help others without waiting for a gong to ring in the sky.  The Scriptures tell us what to do all through them. If we belong to Him, if we call Him Lord, we will act of them.
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loretta

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2013, 02:58:02 PM »


I don't think thinking...this was God's will for me to do this and so I had no choice...so I did it... is the productive approach.   

I think that you are still preaching to the choir DougE.  None of us here at BT, having understood and embraced the truths of the lake of fire, free-will and the sovereignty of God think this way - that I had no choice...so I did it.  Ofcourse we know full well that He is the arranger and causer of circumstance and that we are the learner and the repenter and the one needing discipline and judgement.  We wouldn't be here if we didn't.

We would still be in Babylon, but we're not.

You talk of productive approach and disobedient choices as if we are really free to choose.  I remember something that Dave said in another thread long ago - I don't try to conform my life to the Bible, but use it to understand what's happening in my life - or something along those lines.  None of us here are willful rebellious sinners using the free will argument as license to sin.  But looking back we can see God's sovereign hand in our lives working for our good.
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microlink

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2013, 07:36:59 PM »

Very good post Loretta. :)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2013, 08:12:05 PM »

Two victories:

1.  Victory over racial bigotry.  It took a heap of good and bad examples, growing desire to follow the good and not follow the bad, hundreds of usually seemingly unrelated life experiences not entered into by my own will or choice, the loss of television (especially local news) for about 6 years--again not by choice but by acquiescence, and events in the world and the culture all through my life (large and small) that had impact on me, and myriad choices, tests of those choices, and tests by and from others, humility and humiliations--all this over the course of decades.

2.  Overnight (relatively speaking) the change in my "language" from a near constant stream of profanity and invective to the absence of that and the growing presence of "blessing", whether that was for my 'circumstances' (all of God) or for all those pesky other people in the world who I knew were also in His hands.

I can't say that there aren't those to whom "the salvation of all" and the "absolute sovereignty of God" are little more than doctrinal curiosities.  But that wasn't what happened to me.  Though I am far from perfect, SIMPLY BELIEVING was what started the work in me which He has promised to continue.  And so far, He has.

Now then:  Of those two, which was "God working in me to will and to do His good pleasure"?  One took decades and untold thousands of twists and turns, and required my participation since it all was happening to ME.  The other took a few hours at most and I didn't know that it had happened until it was all over and I looked back.  One came about after much struggle.  The other fell in my lap.  Both were "overcoming" and could not, as it is axiomatic, have come about without what preceded them.

Rick, I know what you mean when you say that "do good" is often accompanied by someone wanting to tell you just HOW.  We all came from that, and it is perfectly understandable to be wary.  In my view, that TOO is overcoming...and in NO SMALL WAY. 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 03:07:05 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2013, 09:27:22 AM »


                                                                Hi Doug,


 It appears in your reply that I have not conveyed my thoughts according to my belief in my understanding of Ray’s writings and how that understanding is applied to my attitude concerning my walk with Christ.

When I sin, I never say God made me sin although I do believe it was Gods intention that I took the course of action I chose.

I know full well that God temps no one to sin nor does God sin but I believe God created Satan for that purpose of bringing people into temptation. I believe God is responsible for what I do period but I’m accountable for my own actions because of my own depravity which also is of God creating us all in vanity but not without hope.

My understanding never says, oh God made me do it, there is a separation between God’s liability and any sin I may commit.

I do not have a throw up my hands attitude and say this sin is what God wants me to sin and conclude it must be this way but think this way is how God is teaching me what I’m to understand through experiencing good and evil.

I trust that my knowledge / understanding as I perceive all things of God is exactly where God wants me to be right down to the most minute detail of my understanding.

I think how blessed I am knowing I only believe in Christ because I was caused to believe in Christ by God’s doing. I see myself like the story Jesus told about a certain pharisee who said to God I’m thankful I’m not like that sinner over there or that beggar over there but I’m like the man in the story who won’t even raise his eyes to heaven but say’s forgive me God for I’m a sinner.

I know its not possible or that it’s an impossibility for me to save myself, I believe if God leaves just one thing up to me in order to receive salvation then salvation for me is lost, I will fail, miss the mark, screw it up.

My hope is in the death and resurrection of Christ.


Peace and love to all.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 07:08:54 PM by Rick »
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cjwood

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2013, 02:01:21 PM »

rick, your testimony is refreshing and inspiring.  it is evident that God is gracing your heart to come to the knowledge and truth of His working in your life.  you are a blessing to the forum members and to any guests viewing this thread.  i have enjoyed reading all of your posts.  it is exciting to see God at work.

claudia
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Ricky

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2013, 07:14:54 AM »

Rick, dont like the name to much, but I sure like and understand what I hear from you. Thx for coming here. Kat, you are the only other one that makes any sence to me. Thank you.
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Your heart is God`s gift to you, what you make of it, shall be your gift to Him.

loretta

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2013, 10:20:15 AM »

I like this church. :)
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rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2013, 07:56:18 PM »

                                                           Hi Claudia,


Thank you for your kind words but it's important that everyone know I learned the truth right here at B.T. and still have much to learn, in fact it will take a lifetime.

This forum has been a great blessing to me and help me to understand my creator in a different shade of light, dispelled of lies, leaving me with truth.

This is a special website second to none and anyone finding this site and believing Ray's papers are being blessed very much.  :)


                                                                Hi Ricky,


I'm glad you understood the things I said as I feel I have not conveyed myself properly in prior post. We all learn together here and that is a most wonderful thing and its also why we are here.  :)




                                                                  Hi Loretta,


I like this church too, It's the only church I know where truth rules and I grow spiritually one day at a time, and that of course, is in Gods time!  :)
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Pierdut

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2013, 12:19:11 AM »

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« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 01:22:57 PM by Mistake »
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Kat

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2013, 01:22:00 AM »


Pierdut, it's about attitude... you keep trying to fix yourself, because you have not remove the beast off of it's throne. You can't fix yourself! You think God is not listening or doesn't care and won't answer your prayers... you have made Him into an unjust, unfair God in your own mind. Even in your posting the anger comes through.

We all will eventually come to the point when we realize that we have nothing of any good within our self, nothing! That includes any ability to correct our own wrong behavior. When we finally give up on being able to do any good, even for our self, we will turn to God in a truly humble attitude and seek the help we need... then we will find a loving God. It takes a lot, that's really an understatement of what it takes to get to that point of giving up or removing the beast off it's throne, but when that really happens it is a blessing beyond compare. God will bring all to that point, eventually.

Php 4:7  and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2013, 01:48:31 AM »

                                                           Hi Pierdut


My life has change in many ways also and not for the better in the way of the world , five years ago I left B.T. and went on my way, My wife Donna got sick in 2003 and died July 28 2009 , I held her hand as she drew her last breath.

My heart was crushed, the pain I had experience was so great I wanted to die that same night my wife Donna died. It took me one and a half years to except she was really gone.

After that year and a half had passed by I felt very lonely and became a workaholic, home was just a place to go when there was nothing left to do.

I had purchase a motorcycle and rode it with a passion and became a man of the world living it up, you know, women, wine ,hotels and fine restaurants .

Then things started going wrong in my life , things became difficult for me and happiness eluded me, something change and don’t ask me how I knew but I knew God was behind this change I was going through.

I found myself trying to remember this site B.T. I had been on five years earlier and when I did I started reading the lake of fire series for awhile , now I’m back.

The answer to your question is simple although you may not see it yet but you will, I read this in the bible but don’t know the scripture but says this (  be quiet and know that I am God ) well to me that means meditating and waiting on the Lord.

I find its God, who motivates me these days and strengthen me to endure those things I must endure. It really is in Gods time , but having said that I can relate to many things you said.

My heart goes out to you, you know sometimes when we win we really loose and when we loose we win.

I like how Paul the apostle said it when he said I been abound and abased ,right now I’m abased and I’m ok with that but not long ago I was abound living it up but God put and end to that for me and now He is showing me something that are worth more than all the gold on earth.

Our life here on earth is only for a short season and in this season I remember God allots to each and everyone what they shall have and what they shall have not. Its really is of God no matter what we go through but remember the words of Paul the apostle when he said ( I reckoned the suffering we go through is nothing compared to the glory we shall one day be cloths with ) .

I hope you can find some comfort in these things I said to you but now that I remember, when my wife died it didn’t matter what people said to me because the pain within was to great to hear what people were saying.


Peace and love to all.
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arion

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2013, 04:03:53 PM »


If you read all this, and gave a damn, I thank you, and may God bless you.

Kat gave you some good advice in the post just below yours.  We can't fix ourselves, we can't quit sinning and dropping bad habits on our own power or anything else.  I think of Christ saying that without his Father he could do nothing.  And then he tells us that without him we can do nothing.  The more we try to fix what is wrong with us and the harder we struggle the tighter our chains become.  At least that has been my experience.

Right now believe it or not you are right where God wants to you to be.  Sooner or later you will quit trying to change yourself and God will give you a peace about your situation.  You'll begin to trust that God knows what he's doing and that your safe in his hands and then things will start to change for you.  Until then it's a process of beating your head against a brick wall.  With God's help I'm starting to quit the banging of the head because it hurts too much.  As long as we think that we can work to change our own situation...our situation won't change very much if at all.

I know God loves me.  I know he has promised to conform me to the image of his son.   And I also know that I am powerless to change myself from what I am to what God wants me to be.  God will get me where I need to be when I need to be there.  I realize all the scriptures about striving, working out our own salvation, faith, ect.  It's just that when God does it that it is the power of His spirit striving, working and building faith, ect.   God will get you to where you need to be when you need to be there.  That realization takes the weight off of your shoulders which is a weight we were never able to carry in the first place.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2013, 04:47:50 PM »

But none of this helps me; when prayer doesn't seem to work; when working hard and giving it all you got doesn't seem to work; when nothing you do, works, what is a person supposed to do?

At least there's no eternal torture in "Hellfire" waiting for me, but there is judgment... Or maybe that's what I'm going through now, and that's why my life is so difficult, so miserable,  and why everything I try fails?

I'll tell you what you do Pierdut, NOTHING. Let go, let go , LET GO. DO NOTHING. There is a reason we are admonished to:

Psalm 123:2 Behold, as the eyes of servants look unto the hand of their masters, and as the eyes of a maiden unto the hand of her mistress; so our eyes wait upon the Lord our God, until that he have mercy upon us.

Psalm 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.

Isaiah 30:18 And therefore will the Lord wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the Lord is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Stop trying to fix yourself. Just wait upon the Lord and make your petitions known to Him with thanksgiving. IN HIS TIME Pierdut. This is one of the hardest lessons for any of us to learn and I'm still learning it. We need to LET GO of trying to fix things ourselves, of trying to be in control and just WAIT UPON THE LORD.

I know that the Scriptures say that everyone will eventually be given immortality unable to ever die again... But I'm afraid that I'll spend eternity thinking about the life I never got to have and I'll just be depressed and miserable with no way out.


When I read this, I hear someone who is fixated on the world. Spend eternity thinking about "this life you never got?" What are you talking about? Life contains the experience of evil. Do you think its sunshine and roses for anyone? Let alone for those who are called by His name?

In Christ,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

cjwood

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #75 on: December 04, 2013, 05:06:21 PM »

pierdut, i give a damn.  i understand the feeling of being locked in a prison without seeing any chance of parole.  i also know for a fact through my own experience that the power needed to break down the bars of steel lies only with God Himself.  through His Spirit.  i have tried kicking down the walls of carnal confinement only to find i end up with brokenness because of my inability to do anything to obtain my own release. 

you ARE blessed pierdut.  evidence of that is in your own statement that you STILL believe there is a God and you continue to pray for mercy, forgiveness, and wisdom.  it is okay to become frustrated.  God understands that.  He also still has you in His sights.  His power IS stronger than anything that happens to us in our time on this earth.  He will bring you through this time of your life.  and yes, all the hard stuff and the failings you are experiencing are part of your judgement.  and yes, it is all about attitude.  but our attitude itself will not even change until God has caused it to be so.  you can't even change your attitude on your own.  if you could then that itself would be free will.  and you already know that is a myth.  we can't even remove the beast off the throne in our lives on our own.  it is ALL of God.  every bit of it.

keep remembering that God loves you and He is fighting for you.  don't ever give up hope dear brother.

claudia
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 12:19:28 AM by cjwood »
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Abednego

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2013, 07:20:32 PM »

Hi Pierdut.  There isn't much if anything I can add to what has already been said.  I always pray for anyone when I run across a post like this.  I know God doesn't allow anything "just because", but when I see people hurting my heart breaks just the same.  Seeing people hurt is really starting to affect me.  I can't wait to see what God is doing with that.

Don't lose heart. We all care what happens to you.
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Pierdut

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2013, 11:04:11 PM »

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« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 01:24:54 PM by Mistake »
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Pierdut

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2013, 11:35:58 PM »

...........
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 01:25:28 PM by Mistake »
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rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2013, 01:08:14 AM »

                                                          Hi pierdut,


What everyone said to you is true you know, the understanding our brothers and sisters have to share  is wonderful. I been pondering this question the past few weeks , has every song sung and their lyrics been given by God ?
Ask yourself how deep is Gods control over ones life ? Where do song writers get their lyric ? Where do they get each and every musical note from ? You can see where I’m going with this.

 Its hard to understand sometimes because a don’t feel like a puppet but I’m am, I’m Gods puppet , His workmanship just as you are Pierdut  For the first time in my life I understand the meaning of ( let go and let God ) but it has nothing to do with me but everything to do with God..

It has nothing to do with you either Pierdut for God is no respecter of persons, your no different than another, God has great timing, he’s never late, and he wont be late for you either.

I say, what your going through is ordained of God just like every musical note and their lyrics.




Peace and love to all.


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