> General Discussions
Just need to vent how about you?
loretta:
Thank you Rick for sharing your personal story. My teen daughter and I are going through a particularly hard time in our lives and she is questioning why. I don't think I sounded half as convincing as I ought to, but reading your post has bolstered my beliefs.
--- Quote ---Until then it's a process of beating your head against a brick wall. With God's help I'm starting to quit the banging of the head because it hurts too much.
--- End quote ---
Yes, it hurts too much. :'(
Thank you Arion, Kat, Alex and Claudia. So much wisdom and harmony in your words.
Abednego, as always, you write straight from the heart. :)
And Pierdut, well, how much you've changed already from your very first post to this last one! It's so refreshing to see how God is working in you, through you and for you.
Romans 8:28-31
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Stay encouraged brother, God is not finished with you, and us.
Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
I can lift my head and look forward in hope.
theophilus:
--- Quote from: loretta on November 26, 2013, 11:58:02 AM ---
--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 26, 2013, 10:40:24 AM ---
I don't think thinking...this was God's will for me to do this and so I had no choice...so I did it... is the productive approach.
--- End quote ---
I think that you are still preaching to the choir DougE. None of us here at BT, having understood and embraced the truths of the lake of fire, free-will and the sovereignty of God think this way - that I had no choice...so I did it. Ofcourse we know full well that He is the arranger and causer of circumstance and that we are the learner and the repenter and the one needing discipline and judgement. We wouldn't be here if we didn't.
We would still be in Babylon, but we're not.
You talk of productive approach and disobedient choices as if we are really free to choose. I remember something that Dave said in another thread long ago - I don't try to conform my life to the Bible, but use it to understand what's happening in my life - or something along those lines. None of us here are willful rebellious sinners using the free will argument as license to sin. But looking back we can see God's sovereign hand in our lives working for our good.
--- End quote ---
as if we are really free to choose
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:12-13)
We make the choices which God has willed for us to make. But if we say that we are not really free to choose, then I conclude God is forcing us to.
Philippians 2:18 Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me.
How dare Paul tell the Philippians that THEY SHOULD! Didn't he know that they could not FREELY CHOOSE to be glad and rejoice with him? Clearly the Philippians were not glad and rejoicing with Paul. Why not? Because God was at the time working in them the unwillingness to be glad and rejoice. But why would Paul tell them "You should"?
I think we should not only be LOOKING BACK. We should also be looking before we do the deed and while we do the deed. Is, was, and will be.
Rhys 🕊:
I don't see a problem that Paul said they should. He was inspired to give them instruction on how to live and act so was only being obedient in doing so. I should be glad and rejoice too but I know that doesn't always happen. Paul also knew that it was God who works in us but that shouldn't stop you from saying what you have to say as God uses us to get His word across. Tell people what they should be doing but know it's only God that can bring about the change as He wills and Paul knew that but then he also knew he had a message to deliver so was being obedient in doing so.
I recall Ray saying too that if your involved in things that you shouldn't be doing then you should just stop doing them and that's good advice from him but he also knew that you can only be set free if God sets you free but nothing wrong with being told what you should be doing. Of course we fail but we need to hear what is right and what is wrong otherwise our message is just do what you want as it doesn't matter as God will do what He wants. Even Christ said if you love me you would obey me.
Rhys
Rene:
--- Quote from: theophilus on December 06, 2013, 10:39:46 AM ---
How dare Paul tell the Philippians that THEY SHOULD! Didn't he know that they could not FREELY CHOOSE to be glad and rejoice with him? Clearly the Philippians were not glad and rejoicing with Paul. Why not? Because God was at the time working in them the unwillingness to be glad and rejoice. But why would Paul tell them "You should"?
--- End quote ---
Yes, as Rhys said, Paul dared to say what he said to the Philippians because he was INSPIRED by God to ENCOURAGE his brethren. Paul wanted them to know that even if he was sacrificed (died) for the sake of their faith, it was God's will and therefore he (Paul) will be rejoicing at the Day of the Lord and they can rejoice with him.
Phil 2:16 - "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
Phil 2:17 - "Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
Phil 2:18 - "For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me.
René
Kat:
Here are a couple of emails, Ray had a way about explaining these things, that's why he was the teacher he was.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2510.0.html -----------
The subject of the Sovereignty of God (which by its nature completely demolishes any such thought as man having a will that is free to operate independently of God) is one of those unimaginably simple Truths that most can never wrap their mind around. I have explained it over and over and over and over, but few indeed could ever explain it.
The entire universe is under God's Sovereignty. NOTHING operates or works or functions or thinks or does ANYTHING independently of God and HIs Sovereignty. Therefore, from this fact, we know the following: [1] everthing that has ever happened was according to God's pre-ordained, foreknown plan and purpose. And we can look back and see what has happened realizing that all was in accord with that purpose, and [2] we can likewise know that everything that will yet happen will be according to God's pre-ordained, foreknown plan and purpose, but we CANNOT look forward and know what those things WILL BE; we can only seen what HAS BEEN.
Therefore you DON'T KNOW what God plans for your son in the immediate, intermediate, or long term future. Hence, if you want God to answer your prayers regarding your sons future, YOU WILL H-A-V-E TO PRAY!!
Don't try to second-guess God, now that you have a little spiritual knowledge. LIVE YOUR LIFE. Don't try to figure out things that you can or cannot do based on whether it may or may not be God's will for this or that. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT GOD'S SPECIFIC WILL IS REGARDING THIS OR THAT, so don't try to live as though you do know. Since Phil. 4:4-7 is rather pathetic in the King James, I will read it from the Concordant Version.
"Be rejoicing in the Lord always! Again, I will declare, BE REJOICING! Let your lenience [moderation] be known to all men: the Lord is near. Do not worry about anything, but IN EVERYTHING, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, LET YOUR REQUESTS BE MADE KNOWN TO GOD [don't hold back by second-guessing God and thinking, 'what's the use?'] and the peace of God, that is superior to every frame of mind, shall be garrisoning your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus."
http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm -------------------------------
We choose all day long. God asks us to choose. The human brain has the ability to weigh data and make a choice. I nor the Scriptures deny this fact. What I AND THE SCRIPTURES do deny, is that man has the ability to make "UNCAUSED" choices. For that is what "free" will is all about--UNCAUSED choices, and I and the Scriptures both agree that this is a physiological impossibility.
If something always MAKES OR CAUSES you to choose what you do, then you and your data-processing-brain are not "free" or out of the realm of "causality" to do anything, BUT what a cause made you choose. You can say the cause forced, made or soften to influenced, or inspired, but the end result is always the same: ALL OF OUR CHOICES ARE INFLUENCED, INSPIRED, OR CAUSED to happen by billions of circumstances beyond our knowledge or control.
Therefore King Nebuchadnezar was CAUSED to see that it is God and God alone who rules in the kingdoms of individual men and corporate men. God said that it was HE, GOD, who CAUSED [MADE] the king of Assyria do the warring and slaughter that the king thought he himself had the ability to do.
Jesus said He could no NOTHING except what the Father gave Him to do AND TO EVEN SAY, and Jesus said that without Him, we also, CAN DO NOTHING.
Here is what the Scriptures say
"For it is GOD which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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