> General Discussions
No free will question
Doug:
When Ray was dealing with cancer he made great efforts to find a cure. He taught we should make effort like it is all dependent on us but to pray like it is all dependent on God. Why did Ray then say we should not vote? Yes, we will not change the outcome with our vote but neither would Ray's efforts change the outcome with his illness.
Doug
Craig:
I'm sorry but when you post saying that Ray said something please reference the area in question (email, article etc.). The site has so much information and I am getting too old to remember everything. Before I could answer I would need to see the reference to Ray.
Craig
Kat:
Hi Doug,
Well without going into exactly what Ray said or didn't say, I will reply to the general question you pose. Actually this question is comparing 2 totally different things.
Voting is part and parcel of the politics of a government, which is totally worldly/carnal in nature. To vote is desiring to influence how a government operates.
James 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Here is a definition of Friend - One who supports, sympathizes with, or patronizes a group, cause, or movement.
If we are to come out and be separate, why would we want to be involved/friendly with worldly goings on?
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
v. 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
v. 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
v. 17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
v. 18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty."
As for praying to be healed, that is a personal matter. Since we do not know what God's will is, it certainly may be for somebody to be healed as the results of a inspired pray request.
James 5:13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms.
v. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
v. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
v. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
arion:
To me, things of this nature are pretty simple. Since we don't know in advance what God's will is on every little nuance we do the best we can with what we've got and know at the time, and God will direct the outcome. Otherwise....why would we even pray if the outcome is already determined? The outcome is predetermined but we pray because we don't know the specific outcome. God motivated Ray to do what he could with doctors and physical remedies for healing and God used those specific things to grant a longer life than what he would of had if he didn't do those things. The specific actions Rays was inspired to take was the vehicle that God used to extend his life IMO. In others, God may not inspire to take certain actions and the person will pass earlier than what he/she would of otherwise or, perhaps at various times God may do a miraculous healing. I apply this to all areas of life the best that I can. This is one area that I wish that Ray had done more teachings on. We can almost get fatalistic at times because we know the outcome is already predetermined so we can be tempted to think why should we pray or take other actions? We do it because God tells us to and it is the things that God leads us to do at times that provides the vehicle for God's will in our life.
rick:
Hi Doug,
What I have come so far to understand is that God appoints a time for every person in every generation to be born and to die.
I don’t see where Ray’s life was extended by the choices he made medically as God appointed a time for Ray to die, however the choices Ray made brought him to the day and time of God’s appointed time for Ray’s death.
I don’t see how anyone can add or subtract one minute to their life, like Ray said, no one commits suicide until God say so.
Peace and love to all.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version