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Author Topic: Spiritual Matches  (Read 3703 times)

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greenef

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Spiritual Matches
« on: December 21, 2013, 09:56:45 AM »

Often I have heard Ray speak of "spiritual matches" in scripture. I have found this to be very difficult to accomplish, at least for me it is. Is there a search method one can use or is it just a matter of memorizing scripture? If anyone has an answer to this, please educate me!
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dave

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2013, 06:43:20 PM »

Read. :)
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indianabob

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2013, 03:18:16 AM »

Hi my friend greenef,

It works the same way as it did in elementary school when you learned your multiplication tables.
It's repetition and drill, repetition and drill.
Marking up your Bible with colored pencil also helps, but the main point is that this is a JOB just like learning a new language or any new discipline such as Math or physics or chemistry. The more you do it the the easier it seems to get.
It is not a question of getting it done so that we will have the answers we need. We aren't working for a grade or to finish the course.
It is the journey that is important. We just need to get up every morning and get to school.
And as the journey becomes fun and interesting it also becomes rewarding and uplifting.

Please believe me I've tried most of the short cuts to understanding and they seldom work.
When someone tells you the answers, you know what they told you.
When you discover the answers yourself then you know that you know that you know....
God knows the best pace of learning for each individual and God will regulate how quickly and how well we learn.
It is ALL of God.

Kindly offered, ole Indiana Bob
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Kat

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2013, 11:17:05 AM »


Hi greenef,

I use E-Sword (http://www.e-sword.net/index.html) that I have many Bible translations, commentaries and dictionaries that help me tremendously in my study and it is a vital tool when I am searching in the Scripture. When I am studying a subject I use 'key' words to search and find verses that relate. This may take a lot of searching and looking up different words or phrases in different translations, but it is always fruitful, if not for the subject I'm studying then for other things I find.

Another thing is I will use the commentaries to see if they have any other Scripture that relate to the verse I'm looking at. Sometimes they will list out other Scriptures that I may not have thought of to go along with the verse/subject I'm studying.

Yes these methods can be time consuming, but it can reveal great Scripture connections/matches.

Here is where Ray kind of shows how he went about finding a second Scripture match/witness in his part 5 LoF article. 

http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html ------------

THE KEYS TO SPIRITUAL INTERPRETATION

We will consider four guiding Scriptures:

1. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" (II Pet. 1:20).

The KJV is not the best translation of this verse—it is neither by far the worst. The word "private" tends to fog the understanding of this Scripture. If no Scripture is to be of a "private" interpretation, are we to look for a "PUBLIC" interpretation? That sounds silly.

This is a profoundly important verse when it comes to interpreting Scripture. Yet, I doubt that there are many who understand this verse.

The Greek word translated "private" in the KJV is the word idios, and although it can mean private or separate, more specifically it has reference to "one’s OWN" or "his OWN" or "their OWN" or "your OWN" or "OWN." In this case, it would mean "ITS own" as a prophecy is non-personal and inanimate. See Strong’s Greek Dictionary p. 119. Now notice a couple of translations that retain this definition:

First from the Concordant Greek Text in an "Ultraliteral English Sublinear": "…this BEFORE-most KNOWING that EVERY BEFORE-AVERment OF-WRITing OWN ON-LOOSing NOT IS-BECOMING."

Rendered in the Translation as: "…knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation."—Concordant Literal New Testament

Next from the Emphatic Diaglott English Interlineary: "…this first knowing, that all prophecy of a writing, of its OWN loosing not it is."

Rendered in the Translation as: "This first ascertaining, That All Prophecy of Scripture is not of its OWN Solution"—The Emphatic Diaglot, A New Emphatic Version.

I go to all these extra efforts of showing you the Greek so that you can be convinced yourself and not just believe that this is "my interpretation" of how a verse can or cannot be "interpreted."

So now we can make sense out of this verse, and how profound it is. It destroys the carnal minded approach to Scriptural interpretation. So here is what God is teaching us. No prophetic statement (Revelation is prophecy—See Rev. 22:18, "…the words of the prophecy of this scroll") has within its OWN statement the explanation and fulfillment of that statement. Therefore it is wrong and unscriptural to insist that the very verse that contains the prophecy (such as "the lake of fire. This is the second death") has within itself the interpretation of itself. That’s what God has now taught us in II Pet. 1:20! Therefore, we must go elsewhere to find the correct interpretation. But how do we do that without making blunders and mistakes? We have three more Key verses that will keep us on the right track.

2. "It is the spirit that quickens [makes alive]; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT and they are life."

We touched on this verse already, but it is an important part of our four-verse key. Again I ask: Who believes this verse? If the words that Jesus spoke are "spirit," then how can anyone suggest that everything He said must be taken "literally?" Christ taught in public by parables only. Parables are spiritual, not literal. The book of Revelation is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ," therefore the words of the book of Revelation are SPIRIT! The book of Revelation was "signified" (that is SYMBOLIZED). It is a whole book of symbols, metaphors, and figurative language. Therefore the metaphor: "the lake of fire which is the second death" must be spiritual! But how do we discern things that are "spiritual?"

We need another key.

3. "But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED" (I Cor. 2:14).

And so when I explain spiritual things, I get a lot of e-mail from Christians who condemn me in not too flattering tones, because they are carnal and cannot possibly receive spiritual things. They truly are FOOLISHNESS to them. They ask me if I can’t read. They tell me the verse ITSELF tells us what it means. (But isn’t that just what Peter said cannot be done? That no verse of prophecy explains ITSELF)?

There are reasons God put these verses in the Scriptures.

Remember earlier when we discussed how theologians compare physical things with physical things thinking that they will accomplish something spiritual? Show me a Scripture where God instructs us to compare physical things with physical things for spiritual understanding? SHOW ME! David said "A good understanding have all they that KEEP God’s commandments." The problem with all too many is that they don’t obey God ("Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed CAN BE" Rom. 8:7), and they don’t believe God. We MUST believe God when we are told that the book of Revelation is the words of Jesus Christ and therefore is SPIRIT! Next I will give you one of God’s commandments we are to follow if we are to ever understand such things as "the lake of fire."

The Scriptures don’t command us to compare physical things with spiritual things or spiritual things with physical things or physical things with physical things, so why do we do it? That is exactly how theologians have come to believe that the lake of fire and second death are literal physical tortures for all eternity. They have compared physical fire with physical fire and came up with the conclusion that the lake of fire is physical, material, literal FIRE! God never instructed us to learn spiritual lessons in this manner!

Next we will see how God does instruct us to understand SPIRITUAL MATTERS.

4. "Which things also we speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teacheth [not by comparing physical things with physical things], but which the HOLY SPIRIT TEACHES; COMPARING [OR MATCHING] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 2:13)!

This is really quite profound. This marvelous Scripture, plus the three prior Scriptures will open up understanding to us that has been closed to many Christians for two thousand years.

Let’s recap what we have discovered about "the lake of fire" so far, not according to man’s wisdom, but according to God’s declarations in the SCRIPTURES:

"The lake of fire is the second death" is FIGURATIVE language.
 
"The lake of fire is the second death" is composed of four word SYMBOLS.
 
"The lake of fire is the second death" is a classic example of a METAPHOR.
 
"The lake of fire is the second death" was written in a book that was SIGNIFIED which makes something known by a sign, and a sign is a symbol.
 
"The lake of fire is the second death" is a statement of prophecy and cannot be its OWN INTERPRETATION according to II Pet. 1:20.
 
"The lake of fire is the second death" is a prophecy by Jesus, and Jesus has told us that His words are SPIRIT!
 
"Things of the SPIRIT…are SPIRITUALLY discerned" (I Cor. 2:13). The "lake of fire" cannot, therefore, be PHYSICALLY discerned.
Here are seven proofs that "the lake of fire is the second death" cannot possibly be physical, material, and literal, as many claim to deduce from the verse itself.

Now back to our fourth key verse: "…comparing spiritual things with spiritual." Several translations make this "…matching spiritual things with spiritual." And that word "matching" clarifies this verse even more. Notice the next verse which we have already quoted above, "But the natural [carnal, Greek: animal man] receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither CAN he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned." Now I have heard that verse quoted as many times as any of you, but how many quoting it had even a clue as to what they were quoting? It is often used by charismatic preachers to insinuate that they have special powers of spiritual discernment, and can therefore read your mind and heart and know whether you are in a bad attitude or maybe have a demon, etc., etc. But notice that God tells us exactly how to have "spiritual discernment." We are to follow the instruction in the preceding verse: "comparing [and/or matching] SPIRITUAL things with SPIRITUAL!"

So we have SEVEN proofs that this "lake of fire-second death" is FIGURATIVE language SIGNIFIED IN SYMBOLS, taking the form of a METAPHOR witnessed by John in a VISION and written in a BOOK OF SYMBOLS that is prophetic and therefore cannot be its OWN INTERPRETATION, being a revelation of Christ Who’s words are SPIRIT! And therefore we know two things to be absolute Scriptural truth: (1) This phrase is SPIRITUAL in meaning and not literal. (2) This prophecy cannot be its OWN INTERPRETATION as God commands in II Pet. 1:20. But if one doesn’t believe these seven spiritual proofs (or even ONE of them), how is he to have a spiritual understanding of spiritual things? To find the true interpretation of this spiritual metaphor we must compare it with other spiritual teachings of the same nature until we find a MATCH!

Before we look for something spiritual to match this metaphor, it will be helpful to know just what it means to be "spiritual." There is a giant different between something sounding spiritual and something that actually is spiritual.

WHAT DOES "SPIRITUAL" MEAN?

The American Heritage Dictionary, p. 1335, spiritual adj. 1. Of, relating in, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL.

Strong’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, "spiritual" #4152, pneumatkos, "Pneumatkos ALWAYS connotes the ideas of INVISIBILITY and of POWER" p. 205. (All CAPS are mine).

THE "LAKE OF FIRE-SECOND DEATH" IS NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL OR LITERAL, BUT RATHER IS AN INVISIBLE POWER! THE LAKE OF FIRE IS SPIRITUAL!

That’s right: the lake of fire is spiritual and therefore invisible. No one will ever SEE the lake of fire; just as no one will ever SEE God’s Spirit; and just as no one will ever SEE God’s "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). But make no mistake about it; the lake of fire is REAL, and it is very HOT, and it BURNS things, and its effects are ETERNAL—all, of course, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING.

We need also to understand that not everything that is "spiritual" is holy and good. There is also "spiritual wickedness" (Eph. 6:12). Many believe that the impartation of "immortality" and "incorruption" automatically impart holiness and perfection as well. This is obviously not true, as there is much "spiritual wickedness" in high places among those who do possess incorruption and immortality. We must understand that something "spiritual" can also be extremely wicked, as this has much to do with the purpose and function of the lake of fire. Not only is the lake of fire itself "spiritual," but, everything that is thrown into the lake of fire is either spiritual or at least inanimate or intangible (as with "hades and death").

Okay, fine; the lake of fire is spiritual, but what about these questions: Who are thrown into it? When is it? Where is it? Why is it? What does it accomplish? How long will it burn, and how can you escape it? Now I could answer all those in one sentence, but it wouldn’t be very detailed, and I am sure you would want to know more.

I think most of my readers by now realize that I don’t believe for one second that the lake of fire is some hellhole of real fire that burns and tortures human flesh for all eternity. So we will now concentrate on just what the lake of fire is, what it accomplishes, for whom, and how long will it take.

To do this we must follow God’s four keys to understand spiritual things. God has provided these Scriptural keys so that the wise can and will understand His Word. We need to compare this SPIRITUAL lake of fire with something else SPIRITUAL that will tell us exactly what it is and what it does, to whom, and for how long. Is there such a spiritual Scripture in the Bible that matches the spiritual lake of fire? Yes, there is. There is but one other section of Scripture that fits that of the lake of fire and actually tells us what happens there.

A SPIRITUAL MATCH

In Rev. 20:11 we read of "a great white throne." In Verse 12 the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books are opened, and God presents us with a double witness that "every man’s work" shall be judged by "fire":

"and the dead judged… ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS," (Rev. 20:11). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.
 
"…they were judged every man ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS." (Rev. 20:13). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.
Now then, is there another Scripture that speaks of the judgment of "every man’s WORK?" and every man’s work judged by "FIRE?" Yes, there is, and only one other:

"EVERY MAN’S WORK shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13a).
 
"…And the FIRE shall try EVERY MAN’S WORK…." (I Cor. 3:13b).
We have now located our "two witnesses." These are the only two places in the entirety of the Bible that speak of:

"EVERY MAN…,"
 
"Every man’s WORK…,"
 
"Every man’s work, JUDGED…MANIFESTED, DECLARED, REVEALED, AND TRIED...,"
 
"Every man’s work judged…tried BY FIRE."
We have proven by SEVEN proofs that the lake of fire in Rev. 20 is not physical, material, or literal, but SPIRITUAL. We shall now prove conclusively that the fire of I Cor. 3 is likewise, not physical, material, or literal, but SPIRITUAL as well. These two sets of Scriptures will explain each other. Remember that we learned there are two groups of people to be judged: (1) The whole world in the day of judging (Acts 17:31), and (2) The house of God NOW (I Pet. 4:17 & I Cor. 11:32). Since God is no respecter of persons, He judges both groups by the same means.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Rene

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2013, 12:44:28 PM »

Often I have heard Ray speak of "spiritual matches" in scripture. I have found this to be very difficult to accomplish, at least for me it is. Is there a search method one can use or is it just a matter of memorizing scripture? If anyone has an answer to this, please educate me!

Hi Frank,

As Kathy mentioned, I too use a variety of search engines to find things in scripture.

While studying, I often run across scriptures that remind me of another scripture I have read somewhere else.  If I cannot remember where that scripture is located (which is most of the time), I will  try to recall a key word in that scripture and then search for it electronically.  The bible I use most often to study is Rotherham's Emphasized Bible, and the online version has a word/phrase search engine http://qbible.com/ebr-rotherhams-emphasized-bible-1902/.

For a scripture to be a "spiritual match", it must have the same "spiritual lesson".  So I have to agree that reading is the first place to start. :)

René





 
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2013, 01:37:10 PM »

Use the Center Column References in many bibles.

This is the last bible Ray used:

http://www.thomasnelson.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=reference+edittion&x=-696&y=-59&order=relevance&dir=desc
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loretta

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2013, 05:55:34 AM »

Use the Center Column References in many bibles.

tks Dennis, that was helpful.
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Joel

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2013, 01:32:14 PM »

I agree with you and Ray, Dennis.
I have one of the Thomas Nelson reference Bibles that I have used for many years.
I like the 7.5 to 8 inch size with the 6 point font size myself. And the center column reference has been very helpful.

Joel
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2013, 01:47:43 PM »

I know Ray used that bible because we went to the bible bookstore together and bought one.

Mine is still in very good condition - His is worn out
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greenef

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2013, 02:36:19 PM »

Thanks to all of you, for your help with my post. I too, believe doing a lot of reading. Since I am visually impaired, my reading is very limited. I try to make good use of the electronic technology that might be available. Anyway, thanks again for your input! It is very helpful and I really appreciate your involvement.
Enjoy the Holiday season and may God bless!

greenef
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dodrill

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2013, 03:34:04 PM »

I know Ray used that bible because we went to the bible bookstore together and bought one.

Mine is still in very good condition - His is worn out

I love and respect this of Ray - that he wore his bible out :) nothing like a man who checks and studies and then looks again - there is always more
For me the way the Ray taught or questioned wasn't to build an elaborate theory of what we think the prophesies could mean - but to to notice the little words - the if's and but's - and the condition of the heart - 'tis the way he was made :) a spiritual match for spiritual words
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 03:36:53 PM by hayley »
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microlink

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2013, 05:23:07 PM »

Thanks for this thread everyone. It is very spiritually informative.
I use the Rotherham Emphatic mostly, but also frequently refer to the Emphatic Diaglott and the Concordant Literal Version.
I have down loaded the CLV New Testament and printed it out in MS Word.
I still use my beat up New King James to confirm its errors and my previous misunderstanding of key scriptures. But as Ray said the King James is a good translation except for a few very important words which are absolutely in error. Like hell and eternal.
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3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Rhys

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2013, 05:32:46 PM »

I use E sword mostly and everything on there and of course pray - you can't beat what the holy spirit reveals to you. When it comes alive in your spirit what is greater than that.

Rhys
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I’ve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

dodrill

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2013, 05:57:43 PM »

Actions speak louder than words - sorry I always think about those that cannot read - where do they learn?
Okay - I am out of line - but when I think of the daunting task of trying to establish what is error and what is truthfully accounted as scripture - it makes me think about dispelling the doctrine of devils - the lies spoken of God and His nature
That is why we study further - not to memorize and recount error and word play
the Big concept and outlining of the scriptures are as Ray also attested is God is Love
Well - I love to keep it simple - because I am simple
easily pleased - easily fooled - flesh
a sheep - so when I hear my Master's voice - which is Love - I respond - the rest - well its semantics in my humble opinion - interesting :-[ but just a small piece
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 06:41:18 PM by hayley »
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Duane

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Re: Spiritual Matches
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2013, 08:40:35 PM »

For me--I am constantly on "Bible-nerd" web-sites where often the same questions are asked.
I refer MANY sincere believers to "exposing---"  and "B-T FORUM" for further study.

I, personally keep a note book of several different topics as a quick reference guide to scriptures I have run across so I have key verses at my finger tips.  I also use CLV, YLV, NKJV, KJV, several books ie: RAISING HELL by Julie Ferwerda, and Ray's material--being careful to credit Ray and not plagiarize.
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