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Destruction of the flesh
Kat:
--- Quote ---Would the day of the Lord be around or at he 7th trump, Rev. 11,15
--- End quote ---
Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever ages of the ages. (ESV)
Hi Ricky, sounds like the trumpet announces Christ's reign - the day of the Lord.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
microlink:
--- Quote from: Kat on January 02, 2014, 08:00:57 PM ---
--- Quote ---Would the day of the Lord be around or at he 7th trump, Rev. 11,15
--- End quote ---
Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever ages of the ages. (ESV)
Hi Ricky, sounds like the trumpet announces Christ's reign - the day of the Lord.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Thinking about the Day of the Lord. We know that the 7th trumpet announces the return of Christ to gather His Elect, the first born. Will Lazarus, the friend of Jesus be in this first resurrection? Lazarus knew Christ in the physical. Christ had not yet died for the sins of mankind. Notice what Martha said:
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
So it seems that after Christ died and ascended to heaven, Lazarus and his sisters were converted. Perhaps they were there on the first day of Pentecost and received the Holy Spirit. So that would indicate that Lazarus will be in the first resurrection.
1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Deborah-Leigh:
We know that destruction of the flesh is not literal. Every day, starting from the moment of birth, the physical body gets nearer to the day it will return to dust from which it is formed. The literal demise of physical flesh is guaranteed.
The soul too, with sentient perceptions of a person, also perishes.
So what are we really, while we are alive?
The idea that we are the doers of anything, is where the rubber hits the tar. Refer to Rays edification regarding the King of Babylon (The Myth of free will) who was not chastised for killing men, women and children and pillaging entire villages, but for his audacity to take the credit.
The destruction of ignorance is what is destroyed! be it by ruin as in the case of Job, or the loss of a kingdom as was the case of the King of Babylon who's sanity was restored seven years later.
Repentance can not happen independently of the goodness of God. No matter the agony endured, or intensity of suffering, it can only be Grace that is, Divine influence on the heart, that heals and makes right what was wrong, setting the crooked paths straight.
Arc
microlink:
Some thoughts on Arc's comment on this thread
--- Quote from: Arcturus on January 03, 2014, 02:17:14 PM ---
We know that destruction of the flesh is not literal. Every day, starting from the moment of birth, the physical body gets nearer to the day it will return to dust from which it is formed. The literal demise of physical flesh is guaranteed.
The soul too, with sentient perceptions of a person, also perishes.
So what are we really, while we are alive?
The idea that we are the doers of anything, is where the rubber hits the tar. Refer to Rays edification regarding the King of Babylon (The Myth of free will) who was not chastised for killing men, women and children and pillaging entire villages, but for his audacity to take the credit.
The destruction of ignorance is what is destroyed! be it by ruin as in the case of Job, or the loss of a kingdom as was the case of the King of Babylon who's sanity was restored seven years later.
Repentance can not happen independently of the goodness of God. No matter the agony endured, or intensity of suffering, it can only be Grace that is, Divine influence on the heart, that heals and makes right what was wrong, setting the crooked paths straight.
Arc
--- End quote ---
The scriptures tell us that a living human being consists of body, soul and spirit. So what is the soul? What happens to it at death? I Thes. 5:23 tells us that man consists of body, soul and spirit.
(KJV) 1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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First - about the spirit. We can understand what the spirit in man is from a number of scriptures.
(KJV) Job_32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
God places spirit in all living creatures. The spirit in man gives him the ability to reason, plan, create, love, hate, etc. It is his intellect.
(KJV) 1Co_2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
And at death the spirit returns to God who gave it.
(KJV) Ecc_12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
And so the spirit is given to a person by God at the moment of conception (some say at birth). And at death it departs the body and returns to God.
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Next - about the body. The body is the physical man, made up of flesh, blood and bone. We see it as our physical appearance. People recognize us by seeing us in this way. We are recognized by our appearance and our unique voice. Example: look here comes Joe, or there goes Mary. Or I hear Jack coming around the corner.
(KJV) Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
We have a form and shape. We are physical. when we die our body decays and we turn into dust (soil). The human body was formed by God from the dust (soil) of the earth. It is corruptible and at death, it decays and returns to dust. The flesh, bones and blood disintegrate. The body no longer exists. Its gone.
(KJV) Gen_3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
The human body is simply a vessel to house the soul and the spirit.
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Finally about the soul. What is the soul? This is most intriguing. The breathing man is a living soul.
(KJV) Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Can a soul die? Sure it can. It most certainly is not immortal. The vast majority of nominal Christianity teach that it is immortal. Not true.
(KJV) Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
BUT what happens to the soul at death?
(KJV) Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(Concordant Literal Version) Mat. 10:28 "And do not fear those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing Him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna.
Can something which is destroyed, like the soul, be reconstituted? Destroy, perish and lost all are translated from the one Greek word Apollumni ( Strong's G622). It never carries the meaning of total annihilation or extermination. Gone forever. No. This is most profound.
Here in green is a part of what Ray writes in the article on "Hell is a Christian Hoax":
The Greek word "appolumi" has three basic meanings: "lose, perish, or destroy." Context can tell which of these three is most appropriate, however, context seldom defines the meaning or definition of a word. Here are a few examples:
LOSE/LOST from "appolumi" - The salt in Matt. 5:13, "lost" its flavor. The "lost" sheep in the wilderness that wondered from the 99 sheep was "found" (Luke 15:6). The prodigal Son of Luke 16:24, "...was dead, and is alive again; he was lost and is found." There is nothing "eternal" in the use of this word.
PERISH from "appolumi" - The Apostles were afraid they would "perish" in the sea (Matt. 8:25). Jesus taught in Luke 5:37 that new wine would cause old wine skins to "perish." In Luke 13:33, Jesus spoke of Himself when He said that a prophet cannot "perish" outside of Jerusalem. Jesus was that Prophet, that did "perish" - was crucified and killed IN Jerusalem.
DESTROY/DESTRUCTION from "appolumi" - In Matt. 2:13 Joseph is warned to take Jesus to Egypt, because Herod wanted to "destroy" Him. The Pharisees persuaded the Jews to save Barabbas and "destroy" Jesus (Matt. 27:20). And they later did "destroy"--crucify, kill, Jesus. In Luke 9:56, Jesus said:
"For the Son of man is not come to destroy [Gk: appolumi--destroy, lose, perish] men's lives, but to save them."
Therefore God can destroy the soul. But what happens to it at death. Well it becomes a dead soul. Can a dead soul be brought back to life? Yes, by the resurrection. Consider the first resurrection, notice what the Apostle Paul wrote:
(KJV) 1Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The dead shall be raised incorruptible. The dead (dead soul) will be raised most likely from the place where the person died or was laid and will be raised an immortal spirit being.
(KJV) Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
(Concordant Literal Version) Dan 12:2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion
It appears that the soul will be raised from the grave. Just like the living soul is and invisible entity, so must the dead soul be some invisible essence. It is not the body which is resurrected (flesh which has decayed and returned into the dust). It is the soul that shall be made awake by God and raised to aeonian life.
Other scriptures on this topic of the soul worth looking at are Isa. 26:19, Rev. 6 : 9-10 and Ps. 146:4.
John from Kentucky:
There are several misstatements in this thread about body, soul, and spirit.
The following gives scriptural teaching about this subject.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11605.0.html
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