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[Deborah-Leigh]

http://www.keelynet.com/shoulders/

"The telephone has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." --- (Western Union internal memo, 1876)

"Everything that can be invented has been invented." (Charles H. Duell, commissioner, US Office of Patents, 1899)

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." --- (Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943)

"The bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives." -- Adm. William Leahy, U.S. Atomic Energy Project, 1945.

"Landing and moving around on the moon offer so many serious problems for human beings that it may take science another 200 years to lick them." -- Science Digest, August, 1948.

"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home." --- (Ken Olsen, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977)

[cjwood]

ahh, the knowledge of man.  NOT!!! 

thanks deb for the read.  wouldn't those older fellas be knocked out of their socks if they could see what technology was like in 2014.   

claudia

[Rhys 🕊]

Excellent stuff.....you never know what can be so just believe

From the website mentioned:

"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?" --- (Harry M. Warner, Warner Brothers, 1927)

After watching some TV I think this one is true 


Rhys 

[Kat]

Does these very things that have unexpectedly burst forth into our lives as ways and means to have increase in knowledge and run to and fro have a significance? It does have a certain familiarity to it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[zvezda]

Yes, Kat. I often find it amazing that some prophecies are fulfilled by the internet.
Knowledge shall increase (Daniel 12:4) - thanks to the internet.
Increase of wickedness (Matthew 24:12) - thanks to the internet, I've written a post about this (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14893.msg137794.html#msg137794).
While "run to and fro" might refer to traveling is much easier today, I wonder if it could also refer to surfing the web, after all, the internet is also called world wide web (www), and as we know the scripture is not always literal.

when I look at the development of the internet, I see the similarity. If you remember the beginning of the internet age, we used dial-up, we needed cables and wires to connect computers, monitors were bulky. Then we have broadband with faster speed, smaller computers, thinner monitors, then we have wireless, much much smaller computers (smart phones, tablets). Wireless signals are invisible. Now students can take online courses, no need to be in classrooms physically. Employees can work remotely via internet, no need to be in offices physically. We talk online and we are invisible to each other. This process of going from visible to invisible, it's like a shadow of going from physical to spiritual.

[Craig]

I get what you are saying and have wondered the same, but you could say the same about electricity, which led to mechanization which led to man walking on the moon. 

Nothing new under the sun, knowledge had been increasing at a fairly steady pace until the last 100 years, and then it took off like a rocket.  It also slowed during the dark ages. But depending on our place in history we would think that knowledge was greatly increasing. 

I personally don't spend much time worrying about or studying prophecy, lest I am wrong like everyone else has been. And seriously,
E V E R Y O N E else has been.

Craig

[zvezda]

I get what you are saying and have wondered the same, but you could say the same about electricity, which led to mechanization which led to man walking on the moon. 

I have thought about that too. I think what makes the internet technology stands out is that it make things go from visible(physical) to invisible(spiritual), I don't think we could say the same about electricity, although we can't go online without electricity.

Nothing new under the sun, knowledge had been increasing at a fairly steady pace until the last 100 years, and then it took off like a rocket.  It also slowed during the dark ages. But depending on our place in history we would think that knowledge was greatly increasing. 

True, I think the difference between them (people in the past) and us is that, a majority of them THOUGHT knowledge was greatly increasing, while there were only a few of them got the privileges to get education and actually POSSESS the knowledge. Today, almost everyone could easily possess the knowledge about how an automobile works, or how a television works, even without taking a course or training.
There's nothing new under the sun, but there are definitely differences between the past (history) and present.

I personally don't spend much time worrying about or studying prophecy, lest I am wrong like everyone else has been. And seriously,
E V E R Y O N E else has been.

Craig

Yes, we've been wrong, but have we been ALL wrong? Can you say Ray's 911 paper is all wrong? I am not crazy about studying prophecy, all I want badly is Jesus' return. I understand fully that no one knows when He will return, but if your loved one has been away for too long, they say they will come visit you but haven't decided when, if you want to see them badly enough, won't you look at any tiny little hints when they will visit you?

[Kat]

I think all the elect down through the centuries must have wondered if they were the generation Christ would return to... are we any exception. I agree with zvezda that the knowledge we have access to and can possess now is far greater than could even be imagined in the past centuries.

So is this the time at the end of the age that was spoke of in Daniel where "knowledge shall increase"? I don't know, but I do know that there will be a time of increased knowledge at the end of this age and He will return. I wonder and hope, just like I suppose all the elect have, that it is this generation He will return to.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[walt123]

Hello all

So is this the time at the end of the age that was spoke of in Daniel where "knowledge shall increase"? I don't know, but I do know that there will be a time of increased knowledge at the end of this age and He will return. I wonder and hope, just like I suppose all the elect have, that it is this generation He will return to.

It sure looks that way,quote,unless the the lord shortens those days,no flesh will be saved.

http://youtu.be/AiyllQtY58M

When it backfires and gets out-of-control then what???

Just my thoughts,Walt.

[rick]

I wonder and hope, just like I suppose all the elect have, that it is this generation He will return to.

Me too Kat.

[Kat]

Hi Walt,

Well I'm rethinking the idea the Jesus was speaking of the end time in Matt 24 when He said "unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved." I really think He was answering 2 separate questions in that chapter, that the disciples asks thinking it was the same thing.

Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? (He had just spoke of the destruction of the Temple in verse 2) And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

I think that the disciples considered that the destruction of the Temple, would have to mean the end of the age. The Temple was extremely central to all the Jews held dear and the thought of it destroyed was probably almost unthinkable to the mind of a Jew and of course that would have applied to the disciples too.

But Jesus Christ knew that the destruction of the temple would happen many centuries before the end of the age and His return, therefore He answered so as to put it in proper perspective/order, but of course it was still put in a way to keep it obscure, as so many things are. Jesus answered the first question telling them of the horrible attack that was to come on Jerusalem (and destroy the Temple), warning them and those believers that would still be living there to flee at the first sight of the army.

I do not believe Jesus spoke about the end of the age until verse 29 and that's where He began to gave them the answer to the second part of the question they ask, "what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Briefly, what I think is we are told in that chapter and assumed for so long that He was speaking about the end of the age through the whole chapter, but is there really going to be great turmoil at the end of the age? Here is what Jesus said.

Mat 24:37  But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
v. 38  For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39  and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Though Noah had warned them of coming destruction for 100 years, they did not believe him, and when it actually was about to come they still were just going about busy as normal until "it took them all away." That's what Jesus said happened then and will also happen at the end of the age, He will appear when nobody is expecting Him, "like a thief in the night."

Think about it the church says there will be a 'great tribulation' just before Christ returns, that would be a warning His return was near, they are deceived. Christ spoke those things in chapter 24 in a way that confuses the world and has concealed the true meaning about His return to this very day. Anyway just wanted to give a different perspective to think about or rethink perhaps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Joel]

I think that often times the scales are equally balanced good on one side and evil on the other.
Or evil trying to be up to par with the good spiritual side.
I prefer to believe that the increase of Knowledge in Daniel 12:4 is of a good understanding of some of the Truths of God that are available here today.
Many are running to and fro, few are really truly grounded and unmovable.

Joel

[Dave in Tenn]

Joel, I just spent a good half hour reading the emails section.  "Running to and fro" is as good a description of the range of questions/debates as I could come up with.  Ray didn't say for no reason:  Once you have a Spiritual Truth, hang onto it with all you have.  Even casually reading the bible (even casually reading the Forum) can make the un-grounded "Blow about with every wind of doctrine."

[zvezda]

I do not believe Jesus spoke about the end of the age until verse 29

Hi Kat, I think verse 14 is also about the end of the age.

Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


As for Matt 24:21-22 and Mark 13:19-20, is Daniel 12:1-2 the third witness?

first witness -
Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

second witness -
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

third witness -
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I think Dan 12:1-2 is about the end of the age, if that's correct and if it's the third witness, then the 1st and 2nd witnesses should be about the end of the age too.

[Craig]

I was thinking about how people seem to read the Bible a whole lot more as they get older. Then, it dawned on me, they were cramming for their finals. As for me, I'm just hoping God grades on the curve.

Craig

[Kat]

Craig I think as we get older and life slows down (the kids move out) then maybe we have more time for it   Even though I read the Bible while in church I just didn't get anything (spiritual) out of it then, it was frustrating. Now with a base of knowledge that Ray provided I actually enjoy reading and studying in it.

Zvezda, I'm not saying that I'm sure I've got all this right, I'm just saying that I can see how this could be considered another way, if you look at some of the accounts of it. As I was reading about the attack on Jerusalem in 70 AD that destroyed the Temple and how horrid it really was I could see how such strong words (as in verse 21) were used to describe it. Wikipedia has a summary of the 'Siege of Jerusalem' here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(70) 

For the Jews it was the worst event in their history, it was literally the end of Israel as a nation and nothing else before or after in their history can be compared to it. Josephus had acted as a mediator for the Romans and witnessed the siege and aftermath. One thing he wrote about this was “the misfortunes of all men, from the beginning of the world, if they be compared to these of the Jews [at the destruction of Jerusalem], are not so considerable as they were.” His is a remarkable account found here http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-2.htm

If you consider all the accounts of what happened at Jerusalem in 70 AD then actually verse 21 applies to it quite well, that's all I'm saying.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[zvezda]

Hi Kat, I get what you are saying, here is an excerpt from Ray's 911 paper, it's not about verse 21, just something to consider:

And so we have the historical fulfillment of this Isaiah 30. Or do we? It has been remarked many times that "prophecy is dual." Actually, I believe that many prophecies are multi-layered. That is, they are numerous fulfillment's usually beginning with the physical and literal, moving toward the figurative and spiritual.

[cjwood]

talk about going off topic.   
it happens.

claudia

[Kat]

Hi zvezda, I totally agree with that.

Claudia, your right too. Enjoyed the conversation though.

mercy, peace and love
Kat