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Author Topic: Just need to vent how about you?  (Read 49116 times)

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loretta

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #120 on: December 21, 2013, 09:55:36 AM »


To give you an example, a husband cheats on his wife. The wife is devastated, the kids are torn, etc, etc. Say the husband knows that he has no free will. The husband explains to his wife that he had no choice in the matter. He did what he did because he has no free will. If anyone, God should be blamed since He was the one directing his steps. You wouldn't like to be the wife in this example listening to her husband "excuse", would you? Neither would I!


Neither would I.  But it's this free-will thing and understanding the absolute sovereignty of God that has helped me weather a recent crisis that was building up in my marriage.  Not that I am making any excuses for his behavior (or mine), nor is he, but it has kept me from overreacting (no free-will there either! :) ).  My attitude right now is one of grace and understanding while showing tough love (if you knew me, this is completely alien to me!).  God has taken me through the twists and turns of life that has brought me to this point in my life and I really don't know how life is going to turn out on the morrow.  As I was so kindly reminded, it helps to just take one day at a time.


Ray taught that there is only one way that every event in a person's life will go, and God already knows how it will turn out, and so there are no multiple paths (or two paths in life).


Pierdut is right, there are no two paths in life.  Yes, we are constantly faced with multiple choices, but because of where we are at that particular time in our life, hemmed in by the circumstances caused by God on the one hand and our un-regenerate selves on the other, we can and do make only one choice, that God knew (caused) all along we would make.  Yeah with our limited vision, sometimes it does seem that some choices are good, while others are bad, but these are the twists and turns that God uses to change us, to mold us, to purge us, to renew us, to bring us to a particular place.

Yes, we do weave our own webs, terrible as it may seem, but God does provide the spiders silk.


When I was younger I had wished that I made different choices in life.  Now that I'm getting older, I can look behind me and see that the things that happened were a necessary part of my development. 

But it gives me great peace of mind to know that my choices are already predetermined.  Not that it absolves any accountability for my choices but the peace comes from knowing that nothing I do can screw up God's plan for me. 


Yes, I am on God's timeplan, and that is so comforting.
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rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #121 on: December 21, 2013, 02:23:44 PM »

I find the learning process is not easy and timely, its amazing how truths I learned here, can be challenged with certain post I read. No doubt it takes time and thought blended with experience for truths to become deeply rooted.

I suppose its noble for one to think the ability is theirs to choose always, to do that which is right in God’s sight. However this line of thought no doubt leads back to Christendom where man or women reaches up to God.

I believe the things Ray has said or written not because Ray said it or wrote it but because Ray proved it through scripture using many scripture that cannot be disputed except by those who are not being dragged or drawn by God because the things of God are foolishness to the unbeliever.

I find in every post a vast difference in spiritual knowledge and I the least of such wonderful knowledge. I find within myself a profound thankfulness for those of you, my spiritual brothers and sisters who correct me directly or indirectly so as to keep my understanding moving forward in God’s truths.

There are certain post I read which leads me to believe I can through my own will even though my will is subjected to God’s will choose to do the right thing in every situation, I do go back and forth with such notions that somehow there is within myself this ability .

If such ability does exist, I have failed to find it in the course of my life. If one can reference the part in the lake of fire series or in any of Ray’s e-mails or anywhere on this site that proves to me through scripture that this ability does exist, please point it out to me.

I find examples given can be for me deceiving in that it leads me back to the ( who I am beast ).
No doubt all examples are given with good intention but any example given that would lead me to believe I can somehow change the will of God or go against the will of God in my life is just plain wrong as noble as it may sound.

My life is predestine and if predestine which part of predestine can I change ? Which sin can I not commit ? Which prayer can I not pray ? What word can I not speak ? Has God predestine a !/3 of my life or maybe !/2 my life or perhaps 2/3 of my life ? Has God predestine 3/3 of my life?

If 3/3 has been predestine then what ever is said regardless of how noble it sounds is beyond any ability I would have to make any change In me.

Its just as I said in the beginning of this thread, I can’t change one thing about me, not one word not one deed, absolutely nothing.


Peace and love to all.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 02:47:51 PM by Rick »
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theophilus

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #122 on: December 21, 2013, 07:56:56 PM »

                                                             Hi Theophilus,

Your example is something I been dwelling on these past few weeks not about someone committing adultery but rather are we given the opportunity to travel on two paths in this life, both of which are of God but not always by God ?

Lets keep it simple and use your example about the man who has committed adultery, The man loves his wife but has and issue with lust of women, He knows inwardly to be with a women outside of his wife is wrong and so now he is confronted with a choice.

Is his life predestine on one path to say no, and on the other path to say yes ?  Can he choose of his own will which is subjected to Gods will to take either path ?

I think of a man who drinks to the point where its causing issues in his relationship with his wife and his drinking is causing problems on the job, his wife threatens to leave him if he continues drinking all the time, his boss threatens to fire him.

The man knows he will loose everything in his life and will become devastated if he continues on this path of drinking.

The logical thing to do is stop drinking immediately however he continues to drink, why does he keep drinking ?

Is there another force at play here ? Or does he has a choice to take the other path which is alcohol free ?

These two paths make much sense to me but I have not found it in Rays papers yet, I’m hoping Ray has written something along these lines.

I understand what your meaning is about a defeatist attitude and I know the beast within can be quite deceiving and many times I ask myself, why do I do the things I do ?

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak as the good book says and sometimes I wonder if the flesh is to weak to take the other path, the right path.

I remember Elmer Fudd , I think that was the name but he always said ( what a terrible web we weave for ourselves )

Thank you Theopilus for the correction.


Peace and love to all.

Hello Rick,

continuing with the example, the husband has two choices in front of him. It's a struggle because his flesh wants to sin but his spirit wants to do the right thing. I believe that whatever path the husband CHOOSES to follow is the path that God had determined for him to follow. But the man definitely makes a choice; and does so of his own will.

As regards the drinking man, either path represents a potential choice. God already knows the man's choice but the man doesn't know it until he makes it.
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theophilus

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #123 on: December 22, 2013, 02:31:21 AM »

Hi Loretta,

we share the same belief regarding the phantom free will. I was on my last leg at work. I was on suspension. This ending week I failed to achieved 100 % production at work. This means come Monday I will be terminated. What to do? what to do? Get mad? get sad? get worried? Paul tells me not to worry about anything. I got rent, bills, child support, etc, etc; I will be left without health insurance, and so will be my minor daughter. It's no good in my 'hood! Yet I don't doubt it is of God. But it's very hard.  :'(
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DougE6

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #124 on: December 22, 2013, 04:04:07 AM »

"To give you an example, a husband cheats on his wife. The wife is devastated, the kids are torn, etc, etc. Say the husband knows that he has no free will. The husband explains to his wife that he had no choice in the matter. He did what he did because he has no free will. If anyone, God should be blamed since He was the one directing his steps. You wouldn't like to be the wife in this example listening to her husband "excuse", would you? Neither would I!"

God is not interested in anyone belonging to him being an adulterer or a fornicator. Adultery and fornication are sins of the flesh. If you are committing these you are in the flesh and not the spirit. Frankly, it is impossible for those in the spirit to commit these sins. So, if anyone commits these sins, they are in the flesh.

God is sovereign. He has ordained your life's path. Granted. BUT... Do you want to live in the flesh or in the spirit?

Is it possible that God has ordained your life's path to include these sins? Of course! Otherwise it would not happen.

Judge yourself!! God's sovereignty should be leading you into walking in the spirit and not in the flesh more and more if He has chosen you to be with Christ when He returns. Christ is looking for a pure bride. So weep if you are doing acts like adultery. Weep! NEVER EVER say...well I blame God's sovereignty. Granted this knowledge of God's sovereignty if present in others or in us should help us to deal with more grace with others weaknesses or maybe to give other's more grace. But never ever counsel and say..well this is God's desire for me/you to do these sins! To the sin committing sinner, the fact that one is doing such things should only be a HUGE wake up call.

I understand that sometimes God waits until the 11th hour to help deliver us or much more time goes by than seems reasonable. If one is learning to love righteousness and hate wickedness even in this time of weakness, sure ...good work is being done. Granted. Sometimes we need to see for ourselves our own wickedness and God's lets us store up a whole lot of sin before delivering us...

YET...

I do not understand all this focus on God's sovereignty. Please do not misunderstand me here. I feel God's sovereignty is not a hard understanding!

The death of the beast is a hard understanding!  If my beast is dead, the proof of that is not if I believe in God's sovereignty, or use it to justify myself. The proof of a dead/dying beast is if I am living in the spirit and NOT doing the works of the flesh. The beast cannot let Christ rule nor does it submit to Christ...and Christ is not an adulterer. Believing in God's sovereignty is easy. Resting in His sovereignty in righteousness...is MUCH HARDER. Judging oneself and letting God  destroy the beast and ruling man of sin and the beastly nature is HARD. So let God's sovereignty SHOW you how weak/fleshly/sinful your heart is... not so that you can just accept your fleshliness but so you will pray and pursue and beg Him to change your heart into something better! If one has no desire to do this...well, we ALL go through dry spells that may/must be necessary for our spiritual growth,...maybe in a dry spell counterfeit comfort can be gained by saying to oneself..this is God's plan for me to be so controlled by the flesh, but I don't see any scriptures anywhere that even hint even in a most put the blame for our sins on God.  I just think that is in RETROSPECT looking back on my life I can say that everything that happened was planned and purposed...but in everyday living..well God can judge you because it is your heart that is evil, not his, and you are doing the works, so repent. 


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theophilus

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #125 on: December 22, 2013, 09:23:52 AM »

"To give you an example, a husband cheats on his wife. The wife is devastated, the kids are torn, etc, etc. Say the husband knows that he has no free will. The husband explains to his wife that he had no choice in the matter. He did what he did because he has no free will. If anyone, God should be blamed since He was the one directing his steps. You wouldn't like to be the wife in this example listening to her husband "excuse", would you? Neither would I!"

God is not interested in anyone belonging to him being an adulterer or a fornicator. Adultery and fornication are sins of the flesh. If you are committing these you are in the flesh and not the spirit. Frankly, it is impossible for those in the spirit to commit these sins. So, if anyone commits these sins, they are in the flesh.

God is sovereign. He has ordained your life's path. Granted. BUT... Do you want to live in the flesh or in the spirit?

Is it possible that God has ordained your life's path to include these sins? Of course! Otherwise it would not happen.

Judge yourself!! God's sovereignty should be leading you into walking in the spirit and not in the flesh more and more if He has chosen you to be with Christ when He returns. Christ is looking for a pure bride. So weep if you are doing acts like adultery. Weep! NEVER EVER say...well I blame God's sovereignty. Granted this knowledge of God's sovereignty if present in others or in us should help us to deal with more grace with others weaknesses or maybe to give other's more grace. But never ever counsel and say..well this is God's desire for me/you to do these sins! To the sin committing sinner, the fact that one is doing such things should only be a HUGE wake up call.

I understand that sometimes God waits until the 11th hour to help deliver us or much more time goes by than seems reasonable. If one is learning to love righteousness and hate wickedness even in this time of weakness, sure ...good work is being done. Granted. Sometimes we need to see for ourselves our own wickedness and God's lets us store up a whole lot of sin before delivering us...

YET...

I do not understand all this focus on God's sovereignty. Please do not misunderstand me here. I feel God's sovereignty is not a hard understanding!

The death of the beast is a hard understanding!  If my beast is dead, the proof of that is not if I believe in God's sovereignty, or use it to justify myself. The proof of a dead/dying beast is if I am living in the spirit and NOT doing the works of the flesh. The beast cannot let Christ rule nor does it submit to Christ...and Christ is not an adulterer. Believing in God's sovereignty is easy. Resting in His sovereignty in righteousness...is MUCH HARDER. Judging oneself and letting God  destroy the beast and ruling man of sin and the beastly nature is HARD. So let God's sovereignty SHOW you how weak/fleshly/sinful your heart is... not so that you can just accept your fleshliness but so you will pray and pursue and beg Him to change your heart into something better! If one has no desire to do this...well, we ALL go through dry spells that may/must be necessary for our spiritual growth,...maybe in a dry spell counterfeit comfort can be gained by saying to oneself..this is God's plan for me to be so controlled by the flesh, but I don't see any scriptures anywhere that even hint even in a most put the blame for our sins on God.  I just think that is in RETROSPECT looking back on my life I can say that everything that happened was planned and purposed...but in everyday living..well God can judge you because it is your heart that is evil, not his, and you are doing the works, so repent. 

Hello DougE6,

I was just giving an example. God's sovereignty isn't a hard understanding to you NOW! How about before your eyes were opened? I have "tried" to help others see this sovereignty to no avail. They simply can't grasp  it.

"God is sovereign. He has ordained your life's path. Granted. BUT... Do you want to live in the flesh or in the spirit?"

If I understand correctly, whether I want to live in the flesh or the Spirit is OF God. In response to your question, no, I do not want to live in the flesh. I would like to overcome every single temptation that comes my way, even though I know it's not possible.

Again, the husband example was a hypothetical.
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rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2013, 10:00:44 AM »

                                                           Hi Theophilus,


I’m sorry to hear about your situation at work, no doubt it’s a very stressful situation to be in.
No doubt I’m already praying for you that your situation will change for the good, I mean that from my heart my friend.

I’m also confidant everyone else will be praying for you as well, God can soften your bosses heart in the blink of an eye, even quicker.


Peace and love to all.
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rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2013, 10:46:51 AM »

                                                               Hi Doug,


I read somewhere in the lake of fire series that Christ did not sin, because God did not cause Him to sin, that maybe not a direct quote from Rays writing but the meaning remains the same.

I agree with the fact that God gave no one permission to sin and I believe most folks really want to do the right things in life.

But if one does sin we have a mediator Christ Jesus which is faithful and just to forgive those who ask to be forgiven.

We are under grace not law and God does call the base things in this life to confound the wise. My entire experience in Christendom was being told God loves me but if I sin God will send me to hell.

I’m beginning to understand things here at B.T. that otherwise in Christendom I would not have. This wake up call you talk about reminds me of and old saying ( its not over till the fat lady sings ).

When it comes to salvation what is not possible for man is possible for God, even the devil will be saved and all the fallen angles, Adolph Hitler too.

I remember reading in the lake of fire, Ray said that one will want to stop sinning long before they do stop sinning.

I cannot speak for anyone else but this I know about me that if I could press a magic button and never sin again I would press that button in a heart beat. For the first time in my life because of B.T. I understand why I sin, I understand that I do not have free will and my life really is in Gods hands.

I see my life as a believer and also I see a non believers life fully predestine by God. I believe what ever anyone experiences in this life could not be any other way and God never asked their permission either.

I cannot think of anyone who wishes to sin but maybe there might be some in life who do but even so the sin issue has been dealt with once and for all and now we who are believers are in process of learning righteousness,     
     
Anyways I won’t know if I learned enough righteousness to be in the first resurrection until I die and am resurrected. Be it the first or second resurrection which ever one I’m in was ordain of God and I have no say in it, God never asked my permission in this life for anything and I don’t believe God will ask me in the next life either. Just my thoughts.

Peace and love to all.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 03:32:32 PM by Rick »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2013, 11:47:59 AM »

My problem remains with the myriad voices, denominations, sects, and individuals who are always ready to pronounce me a 'sinner' because I do this or don't do that.  It wouldn't be so unbearable IF they agreed with each other!!

So how do I make my choice?  Grow in wisdom.  Mature.  Learn.  Gain the "sound mind" and put on the Mind of Christ.  Set aside what doesn't work.  Follow what does.  Repeat, repeat, repeat.  Repent and believe.  Repeat, repeat, repeat.  Judgement isn't "punishment for bad choices" for the sake of punishment, but correction.  It changes us and teaches us.

We seem to get to a certain point, then it all comes crashing down.  I don't doubt that Peter fully intended to "not deny" the Lord.  Yet he did--(and all the others with him).  And the Lord knew He would, even if Peter didn't and so much as called Him a liar.  Peter "chose" in advance, yet his choice meant nothing when the time came.  Peter "chose" when he was confronted by accusers, and even though he "chose poorly", it STILL was CLEARLY in the plan of God.  And the LORD used his failure to teach not only him, but US--and especially those of us who believe Peter absolutely could not have chosen differently than he did.

What was the lesson?  "Deny the Lord."?  Of course not.  The Lesson is BELIEVE what He says.  Lean not on your own understanding (like Peter telling the Lord just how it would be), but in all your ways acknowledge Him.  It's everywhere in Scripture, not just there.

What I learn from that whole passage is:  Don't despair.  Our failure is not the end, even if our failure is our present circumstance.  Desire to "do good", but be humble about your own abilities and control of situations.  Keep the FAITH, no matter what.  If you don't have it, how can you keep it?

And for all those pesky other people out there WANTING to sin and HAVING NO DESIRE to do good?  Besides the fact that I don't think that number is very great, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that "they" are here in the first place and require no "preaching" from the likes of me.

     



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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

ez2u

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #129 on: January 25, 2014, 09:29:26 PM »

I was pretty much feeling this way" the world has gone mad" and read some of this post. I guess we all are feeling the madness of this world.  I have nothing to say except everything in my life feels wrong  right now.  out of control and nothing has changed in my circumstances.  reading the Bible and rays post helps.  waiting on the Lord, waiting to feel the warmth of the sun again.1Jn 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

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rick

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #130 on: January 26, 2014, 04:45:56 PM »


HI Ez2u, We know all is of god and that His will shall be accomplished , we also know Christ words are spirit and that the judgement is on the house of God at this time and afterwards the world shall be judged in righteousness but as I look at to days world and read Luke 21:25 I do see a correlation.

Not always sure how to perceive these things but it does appear that all the nations of the earth are in distress as mentioned in Luke 21:25
 
Luke 21:25  And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows.




peace and love to all.
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cheekie3

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Re: Just need to vent how about you?
« Reply #131 on: January 30, 2014, 01:45:21 PM »

Rick -

This is a great post.

I know there are Angels and they too need to be saved.

I am not aware of any fallen angels; as I understand that this term is part of the Lucifer hoax.

George.
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