bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Book of ecclesiastes  (Read 3928 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nelson

  • Guest
Book of ecclesiastes
« on: February 05, 2014, 07:03:38 PM »

Hi guys

There is a verse in ecclesiastes 7:16-17.What is going on in this verse?NIV uses words like 'overwicked'.How can one be overwicked?Does that mean we can be wicked(Don't believe so)?what examples can one give for being overrighteous?

Another verse is ecclesiastes 7:29-'This only have i found:God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes'(NIV).Is this verse correctly traslated?Did God really make us upright(he made us spiritually weak)?

ecclesiastes 3:21-'who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth'?Does anyone have an idea what this verse is all about?
Logged

moshe

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 664
  • So we are what we think about, ALL day long...
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 10:15:30 PM »

Hi Nelson!

Do not be abundantly self-righteous, And do not be thinking yourself superlatively wise; Why should you make yourself desolate? (Ec. 7:16-17 - Concordant)


I always thought this have to do with self perspective. Like not thinking more of our selves than we should (be humble).
The last question reminds me how is it that when someone try to do things the RIGHT way, he often finds opposition, scoffing, or new enemies...

Or
like when someone intends and think to be able to do too much, but then he doesn't have the means, the capacity or the guts to do what he started,

Luk 14:28-30  For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?  Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.


« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 03:48:03 AM by Moises G. »
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4118
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 01:00:41 AM »

What a great passage!  Here it is from the Emphasised Bible:

Ecc 7:15  Everything, had I seen, in my days of vanity, - Here was a righteous man, perishing in his righteousness, and there was a lawless man, continuing long in his wickedness.
Ecc 7:16  Do not become so very righteous, neither count thyself wise beyond measure, - wherefore shouldst thou destroy thyself?
Ecc 7:17  Do not be so very lawless, neither become thou foolish, - wherefore shouldst thou die, before thy time?
Ecc 7:18  It is well that thou shouldst lay fast hold of this, but, even from the other, do not withdraw thy hand, - for, he that revereth God, shall come forth out of them all.
Ecc 7:19  Wisdom, bringeth more strength to a wise man, than ten heroes, that are in the city.
Ecc 7:20  For, as for men, there is none righteous in the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Ecc 7:21  Moreover, not to all the words which men speak, do thou apply thy heart, - lest thou hear thine own servant reviling thee!
Ecc 7:22  For truly, many times, thy heart knoweth, - that, even thou thyself, hast reviled others.

Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4118
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 01:26:17 AM »

There are loads of places in Scripture where a man or woman is called "righteous", or just, or upright or wise.  In the absolute sense, we all fall short.  But if there is no contrast in the relative sense, then we have nothing to look forward to.

The Lord Jesus was an example of someone who was not "over-righteous much".  They hated Him for it.  He also spoke volumes about being "over-righteous much".  Remember what he said to the Pharisees...you tithe of mint and cummin yet you leave out the weightier matters..." and "you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel."

And I think the "preacher" nailed it in the last bit.  I think we come to know when we are being "over-righteous much" when 'many times our hearts know that even we ourselves have reviled others.'
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

rickylittleton

  • Guest
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 07:54:51 AM »

To put it in a nutshell, there are people that are so {most-holier-than-thou}, that some time I think that even
God don't want to see them coming. Most of these people are just overzealous about their religion. And then there are some people that are so wicked, that even in the prison system, they only let them out 1 hour per day. We have all some time in our lives have ran into people who think that they were so holy, I don't think even the devil wanted to fool with then, because he has them where he wants them. Just my little 2 cents in. Tim
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 11:31:47 AM »

Hi Nelson,

Quote
ecclesiastes 3:21-'who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth'?Does anyone have an idea what this verse is all about?

People are given a breath/spirit that begins a physical life when they are born into this world, animal are too.

Isa 42:5  Thus says God, the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:

Gen 7:22  All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died.

1Co 2:11  For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

When a person/animal dies their fleshly body, that is but a physical composition of the elements of earth or "dust," it then decomposes and "will returns to the earth."

Ecc 12:7  and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Now for human being God promises the resurrection of the dead and their spirit will be given a new body, with the same spirit that God has preserved so that the same person/personality can live again. This is not so for animals, nowhere in scripture is spoken that they shall have resurrection, they remain apart of the earth.

Job 14:14  If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my service I would wait, till my renewal should come.
v. 15  You would call, and I would answer you; you would long for the work of your hands.

Joh 5:28  Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
v. 29  and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Here is a couple places Ray spoke on this.

http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm --------------

SPIRIT

When a man dies his spirit returns to God Who gave it (Lk. 23:46, Psa. 104:24-30). The "spirit" is never said to go to hades or sheol, and the "soul" is never said to go to Heaven at death. Men and beasts have the same spirit [ruach] and they go to the same place (Ecc. 3:18-21). There is no getting around this: when God takes away a living soul's spirit, it always dies. The spirit "gives life." No one can live without "spirit," no matter how young and healthy he may be. There are no exceptions. If there are, where is the Scripture?

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html ---

there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46;  I Cor. 2:11; etc.).  There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
------------------------------------------------------

Quote
Another verse is ecclesiastes 7:29-'This only have i found:God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes'(NIV).Is this verse correctly traslated?Did God really make us upright(he made us spiritually weak)?

Ecc 7:29  I discovered that God created people to be upright, but they have each turned to follow their own downward path." (NLT)

I found a verse that could explain what this is speaking of.

Ecc 12:1  Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near of which you will say, "I have no pleasure in them";

When a person is born they have no sin, I guess you could say a person is born with a clean slate, "upright." But they don't stay that way very long, they soon go the way that all humans do, partaking of the lusts of the flesh.

Eph 2:3  among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 10:54:26 PM by Kat »
Logged

Nelson

  • Guest
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 06:41:01 PM »

Howzit.

rickylittleton i like ur 2 cents.You say "We have all some time in our lives have ran into people who think that they were so holy, I don't think even the devil wanted to fool with then, because he has them where he wants them."I like it.

WOW KAT.Some good replies there!I always ask myself whether i'm the only person who reads and is fascinated by the book of ecclesiastes.  Coz i hardly hear people talk about it.Statements like 'life is useless',what you make of those kind of statements?

Thanks dave, much appreciated.The enphasised Bible makes it much more clearer than the NIV.Do u think i shud buy it?I know there is no perfect translation, but it really seems like its better.

Thanks moises.I've never even heard of some of these bibles(Concordant,emphasised), don't even know where i'm gonna get them, coz they really seem better...and i mean much better than what i have(NIV).Your comments:'like when someone intends and think to be able to do too much, but then he doesn't have the means, the capacity or the guts to do what he started,"Jst made me look back!Thanxs

Thank you all.  Guys i'm new at this site so please bare with me if i raise topics that have already been discussed(i've read all smith's material).Guys,there's an email sent to smith where a girl asked ray about his background because her friend is doubting what they taught her at her church.The reply made me laugh so so much.Larry was really wise hey.

PS:Anyone got Jokes to share or personal stories that might be funny?
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4118
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 09:46:25 PM »

Welcome, Nelson.  I don't own a copy of the Emphasized Bible.  I have it as one of several translations with e-sword.

www.e-sword.net
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 11:03:18 PM »


KAT.Some good replies there!I always ask myself whether i'm the only person who reads and is fascinated by the book of ecclesiastes.  Coz i hardly hear people talk about it.Statements like 'life is useless',what you make of those kind of statements?

If somebody believes that this life is useless it is because they are ignorant to the plan of God, like the vast majority of people are. This age is for giving mankind an experience of good and evil, a backdrop we all need for contrast. God's purpose is to bring all of mankind to salvation, we are just not at the point in time when He has begun to save the world through judgement, that is for the next age.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Logged

moshe

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 664
  • So we are what we think about, ALL day long...
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2014, 04:20:38 AM »


Keeping on talking on, Ec. 7:16-17

Here is one of my favorite email's replies (bolds are mine):


    Dear Nicky:  If I tell you that, "Yes, you are being greedy and you should not spend money or time with a girlfriend, but give all this time, energy, and money to the poor," you would not do it anyway, so why are you asking?  I really doubt that you would never buy a pet for the rest of your life, because some guy on a web site told you 40 years earlier to spend that money on the poor. Don't become totally unbalanced. Jesus did not refuse to EAT because He could have given that portion of food to the poor. But neither did he live like a millionaire playboy, either.  Many people have posed similar questions to me. They wonder if they should become homeless themselves so that they can feed a few more homeless people. But not one of them has ever done such a thing, so why ask? Well, people ask, so that I tell them that, "NO, it is fine for you to spend money on yourself and on your girlfriend, etc., etc.," so that they can go on their way and not feel guilty for DOING NOTHING for other people and the poor.
     
    There is a proverb which says, "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?" (Ecc. 7:16).
     
    I am not trying to demean your questions or your sincerity, Nicky, but we need to have a little balance in our lives.  I once receive several emails from a husband and wife who were both doctors. They thanked for showing them on our site in an article on "Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant," that it is not a law of God that they need to give ten percent of their gross income to some church, or God will CURSE THEM WITH A CURSE.  They had "tithed" in a very short period of time, something like $60,000 to a pentecostal church. They just thanked me, thanked me, thanked me, for showing them the light of Scripture that they were not obligated by God to "tithe" on money to a church, or be cursed. Had they not read my paper on tithing, by now, they might have given hundreds of thousands of dollars to that church unnecessarily. Now then, just how thankful were they really for what they learned from this ministry? They gave tens of thousands of dollars before learning these truths, but have not contributed one nickel to the ministry that taught them that truth, so that many more like them could also be taught that truth. I don't need their money;  I don't want their money;  I am merely making a point. Don't make a show of "being righteous over MUCH...,"  but then fail to do anything at all.
    God be with you,
    Ray


Logged

Mahonse

  • NewPoster Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2014, 05:05:26 PM »

There are loads of places in Scripture where a man or woman is called "righteous", or just, or upright or wise.  In the absolute sense, we all fall short.  But if there is no contrast in the relative sense, then we have nothing to look forward to.

The Lord Jesus was an example of someone who was not "over-righteous much".  They hated Him for it.  He also spoke volumes about being "over-righteous much".  Remember what he said to the Pharisees...you tithe of mint and cummin yet you leave out the weightier matters..." and "you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel."

And I think the "preacher" nailed it in the last bit.  I think we come to know when we are being "over-righteous much" when 'many times our hearts know that even we ourselves have reviled others.'

That last bit is so profound. I think one can take things too seriously and that includes being righteous. I think you have to 'lose your life in order to find it' here in that from the very act of trying to be rightous ourselves, we automatically become proud, arrogant and blind. But if we believe in the righteousness of Christ, we naturally become loving, joyful, at peace, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle and are able to apply self-control (Gal. 5:22-23). In order to become wise, we must become fools so that we become wise. In order to become righteous, we must not take ourselves too seriously, but rather take Christ seriously and our (neighbours). The more I think about it the more true it seems that in order to attain something, we have to stop trying ourselves and obey the Lord's commands.
Logged

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 04:52:38 PM »


KAT.Some good replies there!I always ask myself whether i'm the only person who reads and is fascinated by the book of ecclesiastes.  Coz i hardly hear people talk about it.Statements like 'life is useless',what you make of those kind of statements?

If somebody believes that this life is useless it is because they are ignorant to the plan of God, like the vast majority of people are. This age is for giving mankind an experience of good and evil, a backdrop we all need for contrast. God's purpose is to bring all of mankind to salvation, we are just not at the point in time when He has begun to save the world through judgement, that is for the next age.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

An experience of good and evil.. I know this is a scripture reference but I can't find it. What scripture/verse is this?
Logged
Iím just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Ian 155

  • Guest
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 05:43:49 PM »

Heb 5 v 14
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2014, 06:33:50 PM »

 
This goes back to the garden of Eden, which is a parable concerning what is to happen to people in this age.

Gen 2:9  And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food. The tree of life also was in the middle of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 2:17  but you shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

This seems to be a warning to Adam and Eve and all people of what would happen if they eat/partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Though God's warns them He knew full well what they were going to do and that is exactly what was intended. God always warns people of the consequences of their actions, even when it is something in His plan that must happen.

Gen 3:5  For God doth know, that, in the day ye eat thereof, then shall your eyes be opened,--and ye shall become like God, knowing good and evil. (Rotherham)

So this life is the process, now gaining an experiencing good and evil, that will ultimately lead our coming into the image of God.

Gen 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them. (CLV)

And here is another Scripture stating what is going on in this life.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 07:46:31 PM by Kat »
Logged

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2014, 07:33:31 PM »

Seems to answer the age old question of what is the meaning of life.. Yes?
Logged
Iím just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2014, 10:55:51 PM »

If the story in the garden of Eden is a parable does that mean Adam and Eve are not literally the first humans? Doesn't the bible detail the generations from Christ back to Adam and Eve?
Logged
Iím just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4118
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2014, 11:07:44 PM »

Actually, the bible details the geneology of Christ back to GOD.
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2014, 01:24:06 AM »


Most certainly Adam and Eve were real people. But was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil an actual tree that they ate from? Is the tree of Life an actual that gives life? Was Satan a snake that talked to Eve? That story is a parable filled with symbolism.

http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html ------------

PARABLE DEFINED

Let me give you a technical definition of a parable followed by a more simple definition: (1) "Parable: [Greek, para boleí= BESIDE CAST]--A statement Ďcast besideí or parallel to its real spiritual significance, a figure of likeness in action." GREEK-ENGLISH KEYWORD CONCORDANCE p. 216. (2) "A short and simple tale based on familiar things meant to convey a much deeper and profound moral or spiritual truth," WEBSTERíS DICTIONARY. In Old English it was called a "near-story."
---------------------------------------------------------

The events in the garden use symbols that "convey a much deeper and profound moral or spiritual truth." Everything that happened was real, but the story uses symbols that hide the true meaning, just as Jesus Christ spoke in parable.

Matt 13:13  Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not; nor do they understand.

This is how God keeps the church/world 'blind' to the truth, it's a mystery that cannot be unraveled, not without the Holy Spirit revealing it to our spirit.

Col 1:26  the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.

Christ spoke in parables and that's what He meant by His words are spirit and it takes the Spirit of God to reveal the meaning behind the words.

John 6:63  It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Logged

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2014, 11:37:57 AM »

So if our life or mortality began with the taking fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.. and Solomon wrote that Elohim has given us an experience of evil to humble us.. Heb 5:14 says strong meat belongs to those who strengthen their discernment of good and evil.. 1 Cor 6 says Gods people "will judge the world.. and angels" and how can you judge anything without knowledge of good and evil? Is it accurate to say that the point or meaning of this life is to acquire the knowledge of good and evil?

I suppose I always thought that once Adam and Eve ate from its tree that they automatically had the knowledge of good and evil. But now I think that by them eating the fruit all that did was begin the lifelong process of experiencing good and evil, which is what God wanted because how can God have children in His own image if they don't even know the difference between good and evil. We will all experience good and evil but whether or not it humbles us as Solomon wrote, is another issue. Whether or not we attempt to discern between the two is also another issue.

Would you say that the many, the called and the chosen all will experience good and evil but the chosen/elect will be humbled by it and learn to discern between the two all their life?

Logged
Iím just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Book of ecclesiastes
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2014, 12:43:40 PM »


Hi largeli,

This life is a learning lesson, by experiencing good and evil, which is just living this life, we are learning what happens depending on what we do. Now I know that everybody does not always learn form the lessons they are experiencing right now, but their experiences will stick with them and I believe the lesson can still be learned in the next age when giving account.

1Cor 3:13  each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Here is a couple of things that might help with this.

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility ----

You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you.  God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT! 

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5154.0 -----------

If humanity has free will and they can choose to do good.  Why donít they?  Whatís wrong?  I have theologians say, and Iíll quote them,  ďItís the most marvelous gift God has given to humanity is free will, itĎs the most marvelous gift of all.Ē  If this gift is so wonderful, why doesnít it ever work?  Why is it broken?  Why does it malfunction 100% of the time?  Why doesnít it work? 
You got free will, which means there is nothing that causes you to do evil, when you can just as easily do good, nothing.  So why donít you?  Why hasnít anyone?  Where is the first human (save Jesus Christ) that ever lived that way?  And why did Jesus do it, because He had free will?  ďOf My own self I can do nothing.Ē (John 5:30)
v
Am I going to fast for anybody?  It doesnít work.  Even if we had free will, we know for a historical, Biblical fact it doesnít work.  It has never worked.  What good is it?  But we donít even have it.  We donít have it, itís an oxymoron.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
Would you say that the many, the called and the chosen all will experience good and evil but the chosen/elect will be humbled by it and learn to discern between the two all their life?

1Peter 4:17  For the time has come for the judgment to begin from the house of God. And if it first begins from us, what will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?

The elect will certainly go through their judgment now, to be refined and prepared to enter the kingdom at Christ's return and these learning lessons can be pretty difficult, but well worth the final results.

Heb 12:6  For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and chastises every son whom He receives."
v. 7  It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
v. 8  If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
v. 9  Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
v. 10  For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
v. 11  For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 12:56:52 PM by Kat »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.073 seconds with 27 queries.