> General Discussions
Book of ecclesiastes
lareli:
If the story in the garden of Eden is a parable does that mean Adam and Eve are not literally the first humans? Doesn't the bible detail the generations from Christ back to Adam and Eve?
Dave in Tenn:
Actually, the bible details the geneology of Christ back to GOD.
Kat:
Most certainly Adam and Eve were real people. But was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil an actual tree that they ate from? Is the tree of Life an actual that gives life? Was Satan a snake that talked to Eve? That story is a parable filled with symbolism.
http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html ------------
PARABLE DEFINED
Let me give you a technical definition of a parable followed by a more simple definition: (1) "Parable: [Greek, para bole’= BESIDE CAST]--A statement ‘cast beside’ or parallel to its real spiritual significance, a figure of likeness in action." GREEK-ENGLISH KEYWORD CONCORDANCE p. 216. (2) "A short and simple tale based on familiar things meant to convey a much deeper and profound moral or spiritual truth," WEBSTER’S DICTIONARY. In Old English it was called a "near-story."
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The events in the garden use symbols that "convey a much deeper and profound moral or spiritual truth." Everything that happened was real, but the story uses symbols that hide the true meaning, just as Jesus Christ spoke in parable.
Matt 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not; nor do they understand.
This is how God keeps the church/world 'blind' to the truth, it's a mystery that cannot be unraveled, not without the Holy Spirit revealing it to our spirit.
Col 1:26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
Christ spoke in parables and that's what He meant by His words are spirit and it takes the Spirit of God to reveal the meaning behind the words.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lareli:
So if our life or mortality began with the taking fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.. and Solomon wrote that Elohim has given us an experience of evil to humble us.. Heb 5:14 says strong meat belongs to those who strengthen their discernment of good and evil.. 1 Cor 6 says Gods people "will judge the world.. and angels" and how can you judge anything without knowledge of good and evil? Is it accurate to say that the point or meaning of this life is to acquire the knowledge of good and evil?
I suppose I always thought that once Adam and Eve ate from its tree that they automatically had the knowledge of good and evil. But now I think that by them eating the fruit all that did was begin the lifelong process of experiencing good and evil, which is what God wanted because how can God have children in His own image if they don't even know the difference between good and evil. We will all experience good and evil but whether or not it humbles us as Solomon wrote, is another issue. Whether or not we attempt to discern between the two is also another issue.
Would you say that the many, the called and the chosen all will experience good and evil but the chosen/elect will be humbled by it and learn to discern between the two all their life?
Kat:
Hi largeli,
This life is a learning lesson, by experiencing good and evil, which is just living this life, we are learning what happens depending on what we do. Now I know that everybody does not always learn form the lessons they are experiencing right now, but their experiences will stick with them and I believe the lesson can still be learned in the next age when giving account.
1Cor 3:13 each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
v. 14 If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
v. 15 If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
Here is a couple of things that might help with this.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility ----
You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you. God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!
When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE! True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.
But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!
Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying: Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED? Why? Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.
This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them. IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT. "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.
Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well! We have this absolute promise from God:
"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5154.0 -----------
If humanity has free will and they can choose to do good. Why don’t they? What’s wrong? I have theologians say, and I’ll quote them, “It’s the most marvelous gift God has given to humanity is free will, it‘s the most marvelous gift of all.” If this gift is so wonderful, why doesn’t it ever work? Why is it broken? Why does it malfunction 100% of the time? Why doesn’t it work?
You got free will, which means there is nothing that causes you to do evil, when you can just as easily do good, nothing. So why don’t you? Why hasn’t anyone? Where is the first human (save Jesus Christ) that ever lived that way? And why did Jesus do it, because He had free will? “Of My own self I can do nothing.” (John 5:30)
v
Am I going to fast for anybody? It doesn’t work. Even if we had free will, we know for a historical, Biblical fact it doesn’t work. It has never worked. What good is it? But we don’t even have it. We don’t have it, it’s an oxymoron.
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--- Quote ---Would you say that the many, the called and the chosen all will experience good and evil but the chosen/elect will be humbled by it and learn to discern between the two all their life?
--- End quote ---
1Peter 4:17 For the time has come for the judgment to begin from the house of God. And if it first begins from us, what will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?
The elect will certainly go through their judgment now, to be refined and prepared to enter the kingdom at Christ's return and these learning lessons can be pretty difficult, but well worth the final results.
Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and chastises every son whom He receives."
v. 7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
v. 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
v. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
v. 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
v. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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