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Author Topic: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.  (Read 13700 times)

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Abednego

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2014, 11:02:01 PM »

I'm not sure I believe it is always about the money.  I know the love of money is an issue, and that is why we are warned about it.  But I'm not convinced that it's always the love of money.  I believe some of them are just deceived, albeit to a greater level than some.  I can believe that some of them really think they are doing the right thing and are deceived by all the scriptures that are used to preach the prosperity gospel.

That being said, it's a small minority I think, but I still don't lump them all in the same group. Deception is tough, and can't be overcome by their own power.
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Max

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2014, 12:42:46 AM »

Sickening video. I'm definitely sharing that on Facebook and Twitter. I've watched some of these guys on TBN and those other Christian channels, mostly just to make fun of them, but sometimes it angers me. There was one guy trying to sell this miracle water thing, and he said it was approved by Dr. Jesus  ::), and people were totally buying into it. Pretty pathetic.
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moshe

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2014, 04:52:16 AM »

I'm not sure I believe it is always about the money.  I know the love of money is an issue, and that is why we are warned about it.  But I'm not convinced that it's always the love of money.  I believe some of them are just deceived, albeit to a greater level than some.  I can believe that some of them really think they are doing the right thing and are deceived by all the scriptures that are used to preach the prosperity gospel.

That being said, it's a small minority I think, but I still don't lump them all in the same group. Deception is tough, and can't be overcome by their own power.

If it's not just greed, then it's also vanity, and urge for temporal pleasures. Of course they are just deceived, BUT I believe that all these rich preachers KNOW (at least on the back of their heads) that something is NOT right, even so their conscious is almost completely cauterize. Truly these rich preachers are not as usual naive christians thinking that they do the right thing. Just for the grace of God I am not as blind as them, seriously. When I was a kid I wanted to be a preacher since my dad was a preacher. Then my dad died, I became religious church goer, and eventually some truths came to my path, since then I have been on a life spiritual roller coaster...





« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 03:34:34 AM by Moises G. »
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Rene

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2014, 10:50:41 AM »

I'm not sure I believe it is always about the money.  I know the love of money is an issue, and that is why we are warned about it.  But I'm not convinced that it's always the love of money.  I believe some of them are just deceived, albeit to a greater level than some.  I can believe that some of them really think they are doing the right thing and are deceived by all the scriptures that are used to preach the prosperity gospel.

That being said, it's a small minority I think, but I still don't lump them all in the same group. Deception is tough, and can't be overcome by their own power.


I believe the deception is so great that some of these "prosperity ministers" actually believe that the more riches they acquire is a sign that their ministries are actually being "blessed" by God.

Although their behavior offends my spirit, I do, however, understand that they have a purpose in God's plan in this age.  For one thing, we can look at them and see that we are the ones truly "blessed" because we are no longer deceived by their deception. 8)

René
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microlink

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2014, 02:24:16 PM »

So true Rene. Offends me as well. Just have to view it as part of God's purpose. As Paul said:

Php 1:15  Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
Php 1:16  The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
Php 1:17  But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Php 1:18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.


Try to rejoice.  ::)
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3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Abednego

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2014, 02:31:15 PM »

I believe the deception is so great that some of these "prosperity ministers" actually believe that the more riches they acquire is a sign that their ministries are actually being "blessed" by God.

Exactly.  Many of us have seen the videos of these ministers being questioned, but if you look you'll also see videos of the congregations being questioned as well.  Most of them stand behind the prosperity of their pastor for this very reason.

Now if some of them progress into ministry, of course they will still think the same way and make no excuses for the blessings that God bestows on them as well.

Although there are ministers today that know what they are doing, I believe there is a fair number that sat under this teaching before they started their own ministry.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2014, 03:11:48 PM »

Make no mistake about it.

It's all about the money.  Show me any human work---religion, business, government, education---everything---they are all one thing----and I'll show you where the money is.

It's the golden rule.  He who has the gold, rules.  In this world, if you have money, then you're king of the world.  Without money, then you are nothing.

But, there is another Way coming.
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se7en

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2014, 03:59:17 PM »

Moises you took the words right out of my mouth....

"just, WOW...

You read about it and you can't believe it. You watch images and you can't merely believe it. Is like a bizarre real time true movie"


Yeup.

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~Se7en

loretta

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2014, 02:46:21 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0

Oh my gosh, you've got to see it to believe it!  I'd heard about such lavishness while in Christendom, but had brushed it away. I'd been suckered.  And I'm so ashamed to admit it. :(

Surely they've had their reward.
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moshe

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2014, 03:55:07 AM »


I thought about giving a little change of direction to the conversation and ask, what other purposes do you guys

think that this deceived, pathetic, egocentric preachers have in God's plan... ?

Firsts purpose I can think about is to show us contrasts.

Another one is the necessary blindness of humankind for a while so that we realize that we are beasts and need salvation.
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rick

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2014, 09:28:12 AM »

Hi Moises.

You bring out a couple of excellent points.

We know God said He would send them strong delusion, I believe that the timing is for all generations (was, is, and will be )

I believe the multitude of people are greatly deceived and being carried further away from Christ by these evangelist.

I heard some of these evangelist say that Christ became poor so we could become rich, also I heard them say by His stripes we were healed.

I’ve read these scriptures myself but they are clearly taking them out of context. You know, most of the world population lives in poverty, and in the U.S. most people live from week to week and others day to day.

This nonsense they hear gives them hope of maybe living or having a better way of life, being able to provide things their family needs. These preachers are not interested in preaching Christ but rather using Christ for their own personal monetary gain.

The sad thing that I see is there are people who die as a result, absolutely they die, when they say by His stripes you are healed they believe it, give a love offering, then stop taking their medication they need and death takes place.

Others loose even the little bit they have believing He became poor so we can become rich and all they need to do is sow their gift and receive back 100 fold and the deception just goes on and on.

I think on the other hand that most if not all the t.v. evangelist are in it for the money, they cannot possibly believe what they preach.? Can they    ???
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 01:32:31 PM by Rick »
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Abednego

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2014, 10:51:57 AM »


I thought about giving a little change of direction to the conversation and ask, what other purposes do you guys

think that this deceived, pathetic, egocentric preachers have in God's plan... ?

Firsts purpose I can think about is to show us contrasts.

Another one is the necessary blindness of humankind for a while so that we realize that we are beasts and need salvation.

Also, to remind me where I came from and it gives God yet another opportunity to point out when I'm judging others.
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rick

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2014, 12:58:33 PM »

Hi moises,

 
Some other thoughts also, judgement is on the house of God at this time, and when His judgements are in the earth then the inhabitants will learn righteousness.

what I’m thinking is that we are the house of God and its we who are being judge, so its we who are learning righteousness at this time and so all these things like deception and all other forms of evil are for our benefit to learn righteousness .


Clearly this process is teaching us to hate that which is evil giving us the contrast of good and evil, so we will know good and evil which will make us like God.
How else can we judge the world in righteousness ?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 01:22:33 PM by Rick »
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arion

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2014, 10:38:43 AM »

I never watch Christian TV but the other day I happened across Daystar and what do you know but ole Binny Hinn [or Hinny Binn as I call him] was on.  He had a talk show going and was interviewing another Christian guy selling health products and a lot of what the guy said made sense as I've come to some of the same conclusions on certain things myself.  They mentioned the website and I took a gander at it and it was pretty much all multi level marketing with prices way the heck too high.  The products might be o.k. but the guy is obviously more concerned about money making then helping people to get healthy and to make a small profit.

I turned the TV off and went to work.  And then yesterday I turned the TV back on and it was still on Daystar.  And lo and behold Mr. Creflo Dollar was on [Just love that guys name...how fitting, heh] and I was surprised that he wasn't talking about money but you know that things always have a way of getting back to that subject sooner or later.  Creflo was talking about the garden of Eden and how good we would have it if Eve didn't sin, ect ect ect.  Goes back into the same meme' that Adam and Eve screwed it up with their free will so on and so forth.

In the old days I would have to watch stuff like that for a long time in order to spot the error.  It all sounds so good and wholesome to the ears.  But these days I can spot the errors almost immediately.  Like Ray used to say when he picked up a Christian book or paper that he could see heresy usually on the first page but sometimes in the fist paragraph and once in a while in the first sentence. 

Obviously we're no better than the false teachers and they are necessary in the working out of God's plan.  And although it's not a scriptural analogy [because Christ paid the penalty for sin] the thought flashed into my mind of the old 'Mr. Goodwrench' commercials.  Remember those?  The punch line was always 'You can pay me now or pay me later'.  I'm glad for the desire to repent now of all these false beliefs and teachings.  In this age God shows us a little about ourselves at a time and we repent as he shows us these things.  Imagine standing before the Lord on that day thinking that your sins are forgiven you because you prayed a prayer at church, ect only to find out that you had not even begun to repent for the evil and wickedness inside of you.  I'd much rather see the evil and repent now thats for sure.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2014, 10:10:16 PM »

Well put, Arion.

Moises, I think it's like this because this is the way God works.  He's got greater things in Mind for His Kindred, and He never intended for us to naked and ignorant in the garden forever.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 10:13:13 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

rick

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2014, 10:20:59 PM »


Obviously we're no better than the false teachers and they are necessary in the working out of God's plan.

That statement to me is where its at, I find at this point in time, the only difference between those who God is calling now and those who He’s not calling in this age but will be calling in the next age is we who are called now understand that we are no better than anyone else.

Because I’m learning the truth of what I’ am who I ‘am and what I’ll be is the only difference. Does truth make a difference ? Yes in every way, without it, I would have not know the goodness of our creator in this age .  :)
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Joel

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2014, 11:47:53 PM »

During my early days I have been picked up and shaken until my last farthing fell out and bounced into the coffers of ill gotten gain. :(   I often gave and did it joyfully.
It is sickening to see proof of the excesses that today's clergy are enjoying at the expense of the poor and needy.
Interesting--- http://www.historian.net/coins.htm

Joel
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loretta

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2014, 04:07:02 AM »


I heard some of these evangelist say that Christ became poor so we could become rich, also I heard them say by His stripes we were healed.



I've heard it said that Christ wore purple robes, and purple was a color only the rich could afford.  Also that his robe was seamless, meaning costly, which was why the soldiers cast lots for it.  That if Christ was rich, there's nothing wrong if his followers are also rich.  This is the pinnacle of deception

But you're right, the only difference between them and us is that the truth has been revealed to us, so we can hate evil and love good.

Nice thread, guys.
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Dennis Vogel

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AwesomeSavior

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Re: They teach with such conviction but have not a clue.
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2014, 02:20:44 PM »

I'd hate to be these prosperity preachers on Judgement Day. They are gonna reap the whirlwind…Nevertheless, glory to God  :)
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