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Author Topic: What God allows?  (Read 4668 times)

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friendofJC

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What God allows?
« on: March 06, 2014, 09:45:37 PM »

I remember reading an email from Ray that the only thing God allows is the gospel to be spread.  Can anyone help point me to it please?
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Kat

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Re: What God allows?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2014, 12:42:55 AM »


I don't know of an email, but this is from Ray's articles in the LOF.

http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html -------------------

If people could only see that God is not a carnal-minded human as themselves. He is GOD -- The Great Creator, Sustainer, and Saviour of all -- GOD! God has a plan, a procedure, and a purpose for this creation. Precious few have even a basic understanding of what it is. Nothing in creation is out of control from God’s perspective. Nothing ever surprises God or catches Him off guard. God does not view the activity of His creation from His celestial vantage point unaware of what people will do next. God knows all in advance. God doesn’t just know what "will" happen in the future, He causes all that will happen in the future. God IS the future. God is the Alpha and the Omega -- He IS the beginning; He IS the end, and nothing can be different from what God says MUST BE.

We have got to get away from the "God allows certain things" mentality and syndrome. God CREATES, God DESTROYS, God HEALS, God KILLS, God CAUSES, God BRINGS ABOUT, God SAVES. God does not "allow" things that He has not foreordained to be! This popular doctrine among the religions of the world is utter unscriptural foolishness. The teaching suggests that man does things that God had no previous knowledge of, does not approve of, wishes would have never happened, but nonetheless, He "allows" them. Certainly He "allows" them in as much as He does not "disallow" them, but this still begs the question as to their true origin. God is the Creator, not Satan.

"For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are all things: to Whom be glory for ever.  Amen" (KJV Rom. 11:36).

"Seeing that OUT of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR Him is all..." (Concordant Version).


http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html -----------------

I am well aware of the fact that Jesus does at times intervene and stop some crime or evil from taking place. I am now referring to those times when He does not intervene and stop the crime. Why does He “allow” it?

You say, “Well, nobody knows the answer to that!” Oh but we do know the answer. The Scriptures give us the answer. We don’t want the Scriptural answer. We don’t want the truth. We can’t handle the truth. And woe to the messenger who delivers the truth!

And just what do we think we gain by using the catch phrase: “God allowed it?” Does that phrase get God off the hook of responsibility and place the responsibility upon His mal-functioning inventions?   Does the word “allow” carry the connotation: “I had nothing to do with it?” “My hands are clean?” “It’s not my job to prevent evil crimes?” Is this what the word “allow” really means?

The American Heritage College Dictionary:

“ allow v. –lowed, -lowing, -lows. 1. To LET do or happen; PERMIT.”

“permit v. –mitted, -mitting, -mits. 1. To ALLOW the doing of; CONSENT. 2. To GRANT. 3. To AFFORD OPPORTUNITY.

Now then, do we feel better about this theological heresy and nonsense by using the word “allow”? If a Police Officer were to, LET HAPPEN, PERMIT, CONSENT, GRANT, and AFFORD OPPORTUNITY for a horrible crime to take place without lifting a finger to stop it, would he be morally guiltless for “allowing” it to happen? Does the catch phrase “allow” with all of its definitions somehow make void the responsibility of the Police Officer? Is God Almighty less capable and less responsible than even a carnal-minded Police Officer?

Why then do theologians invent their own solution to the problem by applying the unscriptural word “allow” to the acts of God, rather than to accept the plain truth of Scripture concerning these matters? Well, for the exact same reason they invent the unscriptural phrase “free-will” to get God off of the hook of responsibility for the evils in God’s Own creation!   They don’t want the truth; they can’t handle the truth; the truth would convict their own evil and carnal-minded hearts, and they would be forced to humble themselves and repent!

Could any of us honestly say with respect to our presence at an imminent crime, that if we: “allowed, let happen, permitted to happen, consented to its happening, granted it to happen, and afforded it the opportunity to happen,” then our hands are clean? We have no involvement in the crime? We had no obligations, and we are not to be held accountable and responsible?

You know that I speak the truth, but many of you can’t handle the truth.

So am I saying that since God is the Creator of all, and Sustainer of all, and by Him all things Consist, and He already knows all that is and will be, and He works all things after the counsel of His Own will, that all of the crimes of the world are a part of God’s plan? No, that is not my teaching. But this is precisely what the Scriptures say! This is not some perverted theory. I read it in the Bible—in hundreds and hundreds of places!
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 09:47:00 AM by Kat »
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friendofJC

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Re: What God allows?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2014, 03:38:49 PM »

Thank you for posting that snippet out of the LOF for me, Kat.  :)  Good reminder that God disallows stuff just as much. 
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ez2u

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Re: What God allows?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2014, 02:15:10 AM »

hard to swallow but i read this all the time
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onelovedread

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Re: What God allows?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2014, 10:06:38 AM »

We shouldn't forget though that God does not lie or change His mind. His Will is His Word.
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lareli

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Re: What God allows?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 03:07:35 PM »

What about child abuse.. In it's ugliest forms? Is that the will of God? I know that it is or it wouldn't happen right? I'm sure I'm not the 1st or 2nd or thousandth person to have this question.. Surely you all who have meditated on the whole 'no free will' thing have wrestled with this question. Me being new to this, I am not at peace with this aspect yet and I'd like to know if any of you are. And if so, how?

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I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Kat

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Re: What God allows?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 03:41:07 PM »


Hi largely, Yes this has been ask before, and it is a valid question. These things are complicated, it takes time to work it out in our mind where we can begin to understand, but when put together with enough Scripture then it starts to make more sense.

Here are places where Ray spoke on this subject.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8711.0.html ---------------------------

Your questions regarding whether God "predetermined" all things is basically true.  And yes, God did "make us" as He made us.  However, it is not true that God "MADE" us do anything.  People have trouble understanding that just because we don't have a "free will" does not mean that we do not have a "will" at all.  Of course we have a will, it's just that it isn't free to operate WITHOUT A CAUSE.  It is the "cause" that takes away the "freedom" of our wills.  And God does not "MAKE OR CAUSE" us to sin, for example. We volunteer to sin according to our OWN WILL.  And our will, of course, operates on the many thousands and millions of circumstances we confront daily which are totally outside of our control.

    God plain tells us that He does NOT "tempt--try or test" any man with evil (James 1:13).  Well what does "tempt" man then if not God?  Answer: "his OWN LUST/DESIRES." God is, however, responsible for His entire creation, and therefore in Judgment, God will right all apparent wrongs of the past.

    As for computer making choices, I will still differ with you, as there is nothing in the definition of  "choose" or "choice" that necessitates consciousness.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3709.0 ------------------------

People accuse me day and night on my site; they say, 'you say God makes people rape little children, is that what you are saying Ray?' They know I’m not, but they like to gleam from my teachings and that’s the bottom line of what your saying.

“God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts…” God doesn’t have to make people sin, they volunteer, they’re sinning machines. I’ve said so many times mankind is SINNING MACHINES!

I think it was Hosea Ballou, Pastor of the Universalist Church and society of Rockberry, and a writer back in 1700s or some time ago. But I think it was Hosea Ballou who came up with the analogy and it’s a very fine analogy. He said God is Like the rays of the sun and Jesus is, like I mentioned yesterday, that Jesus is the Son of God. But not only the S-o-n, but the S-u-n of God, the brightness of the sun, you see. So we liken God to the rays of the sun, this bright radiant warmth that gives light and heat and causes things to grow and all these wonderful things from the rays of the sun.
 
But ironically in the evening, when the sun goes down it gets colder and towards morning it gets damp. There’s often times dew on the grass, wet, damp and cold. Aha, I think I have God figured out now. When the sun is up, it’s not damp, it’s not wet, it’s not cold, it’s not dark. When the sun goes down it’s cold, damp and dark. Therefore the sun is the cause of dampness, cold and darkness. How do you like that?  Because when the sun’s up you don’t have those things, and when the sun goes down you have them. Therefore this darkness is caused by the sun. No, that’s wrong. That’s the way some people understand theology. 

It’s when the sun is gone the automatic results is, it’s dark, cold and damp. The sun didn’t cause it. It’s when the sun comes up that the sun takes it away. It’s not when the sun goes down it causes it to come. It always been there, it’s the sun that takes it away, it’s not the sun causes it to come and that’s the way God is.

When God removes His beams of light from mankind they become cold and damp and dark. Is that hard to understand? It's automatic, God does not have to supernaturally make it dark on one side of the earth when the sun is on the other side. God doesn’t have to do that it’s automatic.

God doesn’t have to force anybody to sin, it’s automatic. Yes God brings about the circumstances, “Wherefore God gave them up…” (Rom. 1:26). Yes He did, He’s behind it. But He did it through the lusts of their own hearts. He didn’t force anybody to do anything.

He did not have to force Hansan to torture these little children, to kill them or to rape them or whatever all he did with them. All He had to do was let him have the opportunity and he would do it. This man had that mentality, okay.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html ---------------

You are not understanding this subject and the principle behind it. You ask: "Is it man making the choices or is it God's predestination of things?"  It is BOTH.  Listen:  God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE.  That's it. That's all there is to it.  That IS the principle. That IS the Truth.  That IS what the Bible teaches.  It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices."  You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation.  It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."

I hardly know what else to tell you.  God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams.  They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God.  So then we don't make choices, right?  NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES.  It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see.  Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED.  And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that?  He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=253.msg2134#msg2134 ----

Until we come to realize that we are all just as evil as John Calvin or Adolph Hitler, we will never ever understand evil in the world.  I thank God that I have never slowly burned another man or woman at the stake over a low heat fire, but I also know that under the same circumstances, I could have done such a thing. It is within the carnal mind to do ALL the evils of the universe, and that is why carnal-minded people do such things.
Ask yourself what kinda of a God would allow YOU to be led to these same crimes of eating your own children?  PEOPLE rape little girls, not God!  Some people WANT to rape little girls. Others just want to DECEIVE their fellow brothers and sisters into thinking that they are powerful, or great, or spiritual, or wise, or loving, etc., but are just as evil inside as Adolph Hitler. Given the opportunity we would have all been Calvin and Hitler.  But is it necessary? Yes, it is necessary. Do we think that God is playing a game?
I once placed a board across a little stream that I crossed going to school in the first grade. However, laying a board accross San Francisco Bay is a bit more involved.  Creating a cat that will sit and purr on your lap is one thing, but creating creatures into the very IMAGE OF GOD HIMSELF, is quite another. Even the miracle of the Golden Gate Bridge compared to a wooden board cannot compare to what we see now and what we will be when God is through with us.
 It takes incredible powers of good and evil to accomplish this. Christians cannot justify God's use of evil, and hence attribute it to what they preceive to be a greater force than God--SATAN.  Supposedly God doesn't want evil, but He just can't stop Satan. Nonsense. Read my site. I told you it is a large subject.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 10:52:02 PM by Kat »
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