Here are a couple things from Ray on this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,373.0.html ---
Understand this: It is GOD Who is directing your life, and He caused you to come to our site. There is a lot of information on our site. Unfortunately only a handful of people have ever read all the material on our site. If you will read all the material on our site, most of your questions will be answered.
No one showed me how to repent. No one showed me how to overcome. No one showed me how to conquer sin. God did it in me, for me. There was a time when I too felt helpless and didn't know what to do. I knew there was a God, but I didn't know how to really contact Him, and so basically I learned that it was He who contacted me--in HIS TIME.
I have people asking me to "Please explain the Bible to me, Ray." Or: "Show me how to do God's perfect will so that I will be happy and have purpose in my life."
I can't really do these things. Here is what Paul instructs us: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence [Paul was now in prison in Rome, and would never see these Philippians again] , WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING." Why?
"For [because] it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasre" (Phil. 2:12-12).
This sounds like a contradiction to most people. The reason that we "work out our own slavation with fear and trembling" is because it is ALL OF GOD.
We cannot look to our own devices or works--only God can and will save us. You MUST rely on God IN FAITH for all of these things in your life. God will CAUSE you to work all these things out in your life.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=4189.0 -------
Ray do these scriptures below mean that we are saved now? you have said and i agree that all salvation verses are future tense. Please give me what God has revealed to you. God bless Eddie
Lk.7;50 1 Corinth1:18 11 Corinth 2:15 Eph; 2:5,8 2 Timothy 1; 9
Dear Eddie:
Luke 7:50 is speaking of being "saved" from her prior condition, just as when Jesus told various people that their "faith has made thee WHOLE," when He healed them of a disease. This verse is not speaking of spiritual salvation.
I Cor. 1:18 is in the Greek aorist tense, and therefore should be rendered, "yet to us who are BEING saved...."
II Cor. 2:15 likewise should be rendered, "in those who ARE BEING saved and in those who ARE PERISHING...."
Eph. 2:5 "(in grace you are saved)" is speaking of HOW we are saved, NOT WHEN we are saved. Those to come after us also "ARE saved by grace" rather than by some other means. Same with verse 8.
II Tim. 1:9 likewise should be translated "who SAVES us and CALLS us..."
You didn't read my paper: "YOU FOOLS! YOUR HYPOCRITES! YOUR SNAKES!" did you? Near the end I cover these verses and explain them in detail.
God be with you,
Ray
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From the Scripture Ray shows that we are "being" saved, future tense.
Also I believe that WE do good works, as some (few) are "vessels of honor," BUT only though the Spirit of God indwelling. IMO any 'good' deed done of our self (such as all those done in the church), no matter how sincere we are is done out of selfishness in some way or other, otherwise how is this Scripture right?
Rom 3:12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one." (Psalms 14:3; 53:3)
Here is more from Ray.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.msg43145.html -----
That’s what grace is, divine - divinity - God - Godly influence on your heart. But now we’ve taken grace out of the realm of a noun, into a verb, it’s doing something you see. Of course I said that a long time ago.
Jesus didn’t need grace for any pardon of anything. But did He need the influence of God, divine influence on His heart? Absolutely. That’s why He could live the way He did, accomplish what He did, never give in to wrong motives and temptations and all that. He had this divine influence of God on His heart ALL THE TIME.
So then we read Paul says, “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace (divine influence upon the heart) which was bestowed upon me was not found vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I….” (1 Cor 15:10)
“Yet not I” what? He said I labored, you know what that means, work. I’ve ‘worked’ harder than all of them, yet it wasn’t I that works... right? Notice it wasn’t I that was doing the work, but the grace of God which was with me. The grace of God... what?
These things are all understood, notice it, I am what I am by His divine influence upon my heart, which He bestowed upon me and it was not in vain. But I labored more abundantly than they all labored, yet not I labored, but the grace of God labored. That’s what it’s saying, can you see that? So what is the grace of God doing in Paul’s heart? It LABORS, it works.
v
So faith is the channel and faith is believing. So you just have to believe, that’s something in your mind, that’s simple enough. I accept your free gift to save me and I believe it, that’s it, good, all done. No, not quite. Because we read, “The sum of Your word is truth…” (Psalms 119: 160(CLV). You have to put it all together.
In Luke 6: 46 Christ says, “Why call you Me Lord, Lord.” Listen, that’s faith. If you call Him Lord, it means you believe He’s Lord, right, that’s faith. So He says, why do you pretend to have faith in Me, by calling Me Lord, but you don’t do what I say? See it’s a false faith, “you do not do what I say.” It is a contradiction to say, you have faith and you don’t do anything. Notice the rest of this verse in Ephesians.
Eph 2:8 for by grace (a gratuitous gift - divine influence upon the heart) are you saved through faith (believing and doing God‘s will); and that (faith) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
v. 9 not of (our) works, less any man should boast (you boast when you do your own works).
v. 10 For we are HIS workmanship (His achievement - His works), created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
Do you get that? Where it says “not of works,” but “for good works.” Wait a minute is that a contradiction? No, “not of (our) works” but “for (His) good works.” There are works, they’re just not ours. But we are of His workmanship. Workmanship has the word ‘work.’ The Concordant translates it ‘achievement.’ When you want to achieve something it takes work. Who’s doing the work here? God is doing the work. What is that work? Divine influence upon the heart and then you do things.
Eph 2:10 “… created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God has afore ordained that we should walk in them.”
So there are works.
Rom 8:28 “And we know that God WORKS all (things), together for the good…”
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We are saved by grace. It’s free, gratuitous gift from God, but it does something. It teaches - it chastens - it educates - it is divine influence upon the seat of our emotions - thinking - plans - purpose - goals - aspirations and everything else. It divinely influences that heart, you can’t help it, it does it.
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Grace is a gift, you don’t have it. Now this is something you can’t conjure up, it’s a gift of God. It’s always the grace OF God, it comes from God, there is nothing you can do. You say, ‘well what about the faith we’ve got, that comes from us.’ No no no, it says in Eph 2: 8-10 “… faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELF, it is the gift of God;”
The faith it’s a gift, the grace it’s all a gift, everything is a gift. It’s all a gift of God. It’s all faith, it’s all grace, they are all one thing. Grace causes you to live rightly. What does faith do? If you believe God, you do what He says. It is virtually the same thing.
Now what is the goal? To make you like Christ! What is Christ? He is in the image of God. So what does God want from us? He wants us to be in His image. Physical image? No, spiritual image. It is a spiritual thing that God is doing.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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