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its a miracle
Abednego:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on April 03, 2014, 04:19:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: cjwood on April 03, 2014, 03:43:18 PM ---dennis, i thought that scripture spoken by Jesus was in reference to those who would believe without seeing Him in the flesh as the disciples and apostles had opportunity. not that the verse had anything to do with miracles.
claudia
--- End quote ---
People believed because the saw miracles (look it up). IMO this applies to this age, even if it is taken out of context.
--- End quote ---
Religious sites are blocked at work so I can't look up to confirm, but try Jn 14:11. Might be what you are looking for.
cjwood:
yes for sure people in the days of Jesus believed because of the miracles of healing, and raising of the dead, and all the other miracles He did while living in the flesh. i just didn't think Jesus was saying to Thomas there would be no more miracles, blatant or otherwise, in the ages to come. the same Holy Spirit of God the Father abides in us that abided in the apostles, even thomas. perhaps it all comes down to what one believes miracles to be, i.e. how one defines a miracle. i believe Jesus was reproving thomas, who surely had been a witness to many of the miracles Jesus performed. one who Jesus had called to be an apostle. so IMO the verse was more addressed to one of His own (and those to come in the other ages) who believe in the Gospel of the Kingdom but may be weaker in spirit, and ask Christ to confirm and reassure their faith in Him. to be who He says He is, and do what He says He has done, and all He says He will do. remember, according to the scriptures, and ray also, even the apostles were not yet converted until after Pentacost had come, and they all received the Holy Spirit.
but yes, Jesus was saying there will be those who will believe in Him, without seeing any proof in the physical. and blessed they are.
claudia
*edit: as believers we are exhorted to walk by faith, not by sight. that's what i think the story of Thomas was about. not that some in the ages to come would not believe unless they saw a miracle.
Dennis Vogel:
I cannot remember seeing any miracles in my lifetime.
When I say miracle I mean there is no other way to explain what happened. None.
But I have seen the hand of God in my life in hindsight.
Abednego:
Everybody has a different idea on what a miracle is. Some people will not believe in miracles unless they see a dead person stand or watch someone with one arm grow a second.
Ray used Webster in some of his papers, and to go with that:
1: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
I hit a jersey barrier and went over the handlebars of my motorcycle going 65 mph. Got a little road rash (and I mean very little) but no concussion, and no broken bones. (Glad NY had a helmet law because I did not always wear one.)
I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't think so, but I did back then and always will view that as a miracle. Not only to survive, but to actually stand up and walk away is rather unusual. I believe there was divine intervention there, and there isn't a person alive that could ever convince me otherwise.
Dave in Tenn:
semi-related.
from this email: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,305.msg2643.html#msg2643
writer says: Prior to his baptism, Jesus did no recorded supernatural works, did he not have the Spirit from birth? What is your take on this?
Ray's COMMENT: "Prior to baptism, Jesus had no recorded supernatural works..." Oh really? And you think that Jesus living a SINLESS LIFE as a teenager is less of a "supernatural work" than turning water into wine?
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