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Author Topic: Bride and Body  (Read 3102 times)

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DerekSSands

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Bride and Body
« on: April 02, 2014, 09:49:54 PM »

 :) Hello all  :)
I have come across a confusing topicand was hoping someone could direct me to an article oraudio that will clear it up. I was looking through a list of websites for other groups that teach Universal reconciliation and they all seem to have something in common...They say that the Bride of Christ, and The Body of Christ are not one and the same, but that one is Israel and the other is The Gentiles. I was always under the impression that the Gentiles became the "spiritual" Israel and that the writings to jewish christians by Peter are ligit for gentile beleivers as well. Is this an error on my part or is it an error in the teachings of these groups?? any help would be appreciated  :)
God Bless
Derek
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 03:07:19 PM »

Just because someone understands one truth, like God will save all, does not make them converted or spiritually minded.

Many associated with the Concordant Publishing Company have this strange belief in two salvations, one for the Jews and one for the gentiles.  They believe Paul taught a different gospel than Peter.

Here is where Ray discusses this a little.  http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#zender
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DerekSSands

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 03:33:58 PM »

 :) Thank you John, that link is very helpful. do you know of any websites or groups that are compatible with bibletruths.com..I've read some of the stuff on concordant.org and Kingdombiblestudies.org, and a few others but just keep running into questionable things  :)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 04:08:09 PM »

Derek, sadly you're going to continue to run into questionable things.  I had never in my whole stupid life been 'blown about by every wind of doctrine' so much as when I joined facebook.

My advice:  leave them be.  Let them do what they are doing and let the big dogs do the heavy 'contending'.  You will know them by their fruit...and I'm not talking about this forum or other 'groups' or 'followers'.

I don't know of any websites or groups that are 'fully compatible' with what Ray taught.  Sometimes even THIS forum isn't.  Hang in there. 

       
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

John from Kentucky

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 04:16:09 PM »

:) Thank you John, that link is very helpful. do you know of any websites or groups that are compatible with bibletruths.com..I've read some of the stuff on concordant.org and Kingdombiblestudies.org, and a few others but just keep running into questionable things  :)

Compatible?  I haven't found any fully compatible.  Ray has mentioned a few other teachers from whom I have found some truths.

I am not a big surfer of the internet.  For most religious oriented sites, I can see major scriptural errors in a few minutes.  Sugar and poison mixed together.
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DerekSSands

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 04:22:02 PM »

 :) Thank you Dave and John lol I've had my share so far of being blown about I'm done with it and ready for some truth :-) but the Lord wasn't kidding around when he implied that you have to dig and search for it :-)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 05:19:27 PM »

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Arion

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 05:24:16 PM »

God will bring you into deeper truths on his timetable and not ours.  I did the same thing several years ago of people that teach somewhat similar to what Ray did but they had glaring inconsistancies or combined some truths with a lot of error.  I quit looking for those things.  Even when we read Ray's various papers or listen to the audios it's God that has to open our eyes and quicken our spirit or we will not be able to understand.  He'll do it in us in his time and the spirit itself will lead us into all truth even if we don't find it being preached or on a website. 

I'm grateful for Ray's ministry and this website but frankly Ray didn't teach me anything.  Ray was a conduit of God's truth but my heart had to be opened to the teaching.  When I 'stumbled' across Ray's tithing paper I knew I was reading truth but the first time I browsed the LOF papers I then thought him to be a heretic and figured that since even a blind squirrel can find a nut occasionally that this is what happened with the tithing paper.  Yet, several months later I read the LOF again and the scales started to slough off.  If there are other teachers out there with truths for us then God will raise him up in his timing and make it apparent to us.  But I'm certainly not aware of other teachers that teach the truths that we've been privileged to read about here.
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Mike Gagne

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 07:21:58 PM »

Hi Derek ,I think your are doing exactly what God has you doing, when he reveals what you are looking for you will most likely be able to look back and see why he had you doing what you were doing and see the purpose in it....Proverbs 16:9 (KJV)
[9] A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
  Even if you come across something and you think it just pop up out of no where...The lot is cast into the lap, but the decision is wholly of the Lord [even the events that seem accidental are really ordered by Him]. (Proverbs 16:33 AMP) you are not on this site by accident. I don't know if you read LRays twelve God given truths to understand His Word but in truth # 4 there might be help for you. God has me reading them and he is opening my eyes to the truth in those writings. Blessing to you Derek
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loretta

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 04:30:10 PM »

If there is another website, book, preacher, teacher or evangelist who even comes close to Ray, I've not yet come across them.  And I am a big time internet surfer.  Right now I am part of a 'Christian' support group for folks who are suffering on account of evil (BPD) by God's design.   And boy, do I have the opportunity to share these truths!  Almost everyday I have been sharing truths that have been revealed to me experentially and I have been posting links to Ray's teachings because he expounds the Word so well.  It did concern me that someone would object to my being a follower of a cult and surmarily dismiss me from the forum so I've searched around for other links that teach the same truths but to no avail.  Everywhere there is error, great and small, or lack of clarity, or non-attentiveness to all the words.  I've found it safest to stick to Ray's papers and well, so far, nobody has been able to refute Ray's teachings.  Although there has been a few rumblings of discontentment at Ray's blatant heresy! :)
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indianabob

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 06:18:28 PM »

Friend John and folks,

I read the referenced site that you offered and found it very helpful.
http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#zender
I don't believe I have ever seen it prior to today.
In the letters Ray explains a lot that I needed to read.
I do still have one question that perhaps you can help with.

What exactly was it that believing Jews, Hebrews or "men of the circumcision" believed about Jesus or about what Jesus taught the twelve?
If some of these "true believers" died before apostle Paul began his ministry several years after Jesus ascended, what beliefs did they hold that qualified them as true believers, beneficiaries of Grace as understood by Paul?
For them how did grace apply any differently (if it did) than for the Gentiles in Rome or Corinth for example?

It would appear from the context of the writings of the 12 that they didn't at first understand that Jesus would be killed and would rise again; because it was hidden from them until Jesus rose from the dead. So if they didn't understand then the people they taught about Jesus being the expected Messiah would not have understood either. It seems that they were expecting Messiah to replace the occupying Roman army very soon and during their life times and I'm pretty sure that many died during Jesus' ministry and never heard any differently.
Or am I misunderstanding a basic teaching...

Thanks, Indiana Bob


Just because someone understands one truth, like God will save all, does not make them converted or spiritually minded.

Many associated with the Concordant Publishing Company have this strange belief in two salvations, one for the Jews and one for the gentiles.  They believe Paul taught a different gospel than Peter.

Here is where Ray discusses this a little.  http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#zender
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 10:06:07 PM »

Bob, I reckon what they believed, if they were true believers, was what Peter preached at Pentecost and what the Lord continued to reveal during whatever life they had left before the conversion and ministry of Paul. 

Acts open with this:

Act 1:1 The first account, indeed, I (Luke) make, O Theophilus, concerning all which Jesus begins both to do and to teach,
Act 1:2 until the day on which He was taken up; through holy spirit directing the apostles whom He chooses,
Act 1:3 to whom also He presents Himself alive after His suffering, with many tokens, during forty days, being visualized to them and telling them that which concerns the kingdom of God."

He just a bit later adds this from what the Lord said after His resurrection:

Act 1:6 Those, indeed, then, who are coming together, asked Him, saying, "Lord, art Thou at this time restoring the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 Yet He said to them, "Not yours is it to know times or eras which the Father placed in His own jurisdiction."

If they were "expecting" a Messianic kingdom in their lifetime, they had no real right to do so.

Acts 2 is the sermon Peter preached that day.  You can see for yourself what he said to and about them and what they were required to do to "OBEY" the gospel.  No need to post the whole chapter here, but first they were required to REPENT and be Baptized. 

Some 3000 did.  And afterwards:

 Act 2:42  And they were continuing steadfastly in the doctrine of the apostles, and in fellowship, and in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43  And fear came to every soul, and many wonders and miraculous signs took place through the apostles.
Act 2:44  And all the believers were together and had all things common.
Act 2:45  And they sold possessions and goods and distributed them to all, according as anyone had need.
Act 2:46  And continuing steadfastly with one mind day by day in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they shared food in gladness and simplicity of heart,
Act 2:47  praising God, and having favor with all the people.
And the Lord added to the assembly, the ones being saved from day to day.

If they were believers, that's what they believed and did--collectively, the Doctrine of the Apostles.  I can't fathom a theology that suggests that the Apostles' doctrine was different from that which Jesus preached and modeled.

Of course, that's just the simplified version.  A number of things still had to be revealed. 

 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

indianabob

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 11:37:07 PM »

Thanks Dave,

So then are those similar or like John the Baptizer who some on the forum say will not be in the "kingdom" because the Lord Jesus had not yet been crucified when John the Baptizer was killed?

Indiana Bob
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 08:25:03 PM »

Friend John and folks,

I read the referenced site that you offered and found it very helpful.
http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#zender
I don't believe I have ever seen it prior to today.
In the letters Ray explains a lot that I needed to read.
I do still have one question that perhaps you can help with.

What exactly was it that believing Jews, Hebrews or "men of the circumcision" believed about Jesus or about what Jesus taught the twelve?
If some of these "true believers" died before apostle Paul began his ministry several years after Jesus ascended, what beliefs did they hold that qualified them as true believers, beneficiaries of Grace as understood by Paul?
For them how did grace apply any differently (if it did) than for the Gentiles in Rome or Corinth for example?

It would appear from the context of the writings of the 12 that they didn't at first understand that Jesus would be killed and would rise again; because it was hidden from them until Jesus rose from the dead. So if they didn't understand then the people they taught about Jesus being the expected Messiah would not have understood either. It seems that they were expecting Messiah to replace the occupying Roman army very soon and during their life times and I'm pretty sure that many died during Jesus' ministry and never heard any differently.
Or am I misunderstanding a basic teaching...

Thanks, Indiana Bob


Just because someone understands one truth, like God will save all, does not make them converted or spiritually minded.

Many associated with the Concordant Publishing Company have this strange belief in two salvations, one for the Jews and one for the gentiles.  They believe Paul taught a different gospel than Peter.

Here is where Ray discusses this a little.  http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#zender

Hi I-Bob,

Paul is not important.  Peter is not important. 

No one had to wait around for Paul to teach about grace.

Where did grace come from?  From Paul?

What say the Scriptures?

...grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.  John 1:17

It's all about Jesus.

John
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rickylittleton

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Re: Bride and Body
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 11:50:08 PM »

Hello all: Just to add my 2 cents in; I am some what a student of the history of the early church. There are some things in history that the church likes to keep under the table, but you can know this for sure that history does not lie. To make it short, many leaders of the early church did every thing they could to separate them selves from anything having to do with the Hebrew people, and the foundation of the teaching that there were 2 different salivations; one for the Christians, and another lesser one for the Jews started way back because of antisemitic teaching. But rest assured, what Jesus did on the cross took care of everybody. Tim
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