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Blood moon
lareli:
Very helpful thanks Kat.
Again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.. When Christ gave the command to love our neighbor as ourselves, I understand that to mean we aren't to treat anyone in a way we wouldn't want them to treat us.. Same goes for when He says love our enemies. I don't think He was saying that we have to 'like' our enemies or have some sort of lovey dovey affection for them, but love them in the same sense of treating them how we want to be treated, even if they aren't treating us how we want to be treated.. We are to keep our part of the bargain, so-to-speak, even if they don't.
I don't think we have to have the emotion or feeling of love towards everyone because, after all our emotions and feelings will deceive us from time to time... But our deliberate actions towards our enemies and everyone else ought to reflect how we wish to be treated.
It's true that Christ had nasty things to say against the false teachers as JFK pointed out and one thing he said about them consistently was that they were hypocrites! The command to love our neighbor as ourself and likewise to love our enemy, obeying this command will keep us from being hypocrites.
So when I say I love John Hagee I don't mean I agree with, support, or even 'like' him (actually not sure I've ever listened to him) but I hope if I ever crossed paths with him I would not treat him in a way I wouldn't appreciate someone treating me.. I hope I would extend the same grace towards him to believe whatever he wants to believe about God as I would appreciate him extending me grace to believe what I believe about God.. And like I said before, I would be a hypocrite to fault him for believing something I myself once believed.
lilitalienboi16:
If it hasn't been said, remember, there are two words for love in the bible that paint a rather different picture of the relationship between the lover and the loved.
"Agape" and "philleo." God agapes the world, He does not philleo it. God philleo's the elect as they are His. The bride fit for the lamb's wedding.
God hates but I believe our view of God's hatred is often tainted by own preconcieved notions of what hate is due to our flawed human nature. We want to see hate through the eyes of man but we cannot see God's hate in this same way as God is not a man.
God can hate sin and a sinner but AGAPE the World and DIE for it in the very same breathe. There is no contradiction here nor misdeed of character.
I suppose I'll need to re-read the article that John linked but I don't think John is mistaken in his assessment of the fact that God hates sin and sinner. One does not preclude the other: that God in hating sin and sinnder does not also love the world and His creation.
Anyway... now off to re-reading that article again!
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: JohnChris on April 13, 2014, 10:15:28 AM ---JfK,
If God hates sinners then we're doomed because there is no person beside Jesus who has not been a sinner.
I thought that God's plan to send His Son to shed His own blood was to save the world of sinners that He loves.
--- End quote ---
Hi JohnChris,
Your problem is not with me but with God. Attached is a writing from Ray where he shows multiple Scriptures wherein God states He hates sins and sinners.
The Great False Church teaches a lovey, dovey untruth that God hates sin but loves the sinner.
Let go of false teachings and do a little study time in the Scriptures to find the truth.
John
STARTLING REVELATION: GOD HATES SINNERS
There is no Scripture which states that God hates everyone even though everyone sins:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:23)
However, when sinning becomes a way of life, and the sins are of a certain magnitude and grossness, God hates the sinner as well as his sins. Here are some examples:
"And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them" (Leviticus 20:23)
"If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments ...My soul shall abhor you" (Lev. 26:14 & 30)
"For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD" (Deut. 18:12
"...all that do unrighteously are an abomination unto the LORD" (Deut. 25:16)
"They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to anger...and when the LORD saw it, and He abhorred them..." (Deut. 32:16 & 19)
"The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: You hate all workers of iniquity..." (Psalm 5:5)
"...God is angry [Heb: 'enraged, abhorrence, abominable'] with the wicked every day" (Psalm 7:11)
"For the wicked boasts of his heart's desire, and... blesses the covetous, whom the LORD abhors" (Psalm 10:3)
"The Lord tries the righteous: but the wicked and him that loves violence His soul hates" (Psalm 11:5)
"When God heard this He was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel" (Psalm 78:59)
"For the froward [adverse, disobedient] is an abomination to the LORD" (Prov. 3:32)
"These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination to Him... A false witness that speaks lies, and he that sows discord among the brethren" (Prov. 6:16 & 19)
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, God's curse be upon him" (I Cor. 16:22, Moffatt Translation)
"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is enmity [hatred] with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an enemy of God" (James 4:4)
So what is there about man that God loves? He hates man's sin and He hates the man who commits the sin. And that IS the way all human beings are. So what is left for God to love?
There is one Scripture that some might think contradicts the many Scriptures above stating that God hates sinners, and that verse is found in Rom. 5:8.
"But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Doesn't this verse prove that God does love us, even while we are continuing to sin? No, it doesn't. It may sound that way, but let's take a closer look.
CHRIST DIED FOR SINNERS AND FOR THEIR SINS
Christ died for sinners:
"God commends His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for US" (Rom. 5:8)?
Christ died for our sins:
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for OUR SINS according to the scriptures" (I Cor. 15:3)
If Jesus "died for SINNERS," doesn't that prove that He loves sinners? No. He also "died for our SINS." If dying for sinners proves God's love for sinners, then likewise, dying for our sins would prove God's love for our sins, but God hates our sins. Most of us are familiar with this Scripture:
"But your iniquities [Heb: perversity, evil, sin] have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid His face from you, that He will not hear" (Isaiah 59:2)
There is a solution to why Christ died for US SINNERS, and OUR SINS -- two things which God hates.
Notice carefully, that Rom. 5:8 does not say that God loves sinners, or loves us while we are yet sinners. It says that God "commends His love toward us... while yet sinners."
"Commend" means to "introduce or exhibit." Yes, God "introduces" His love toward sinners while they are yet sinners, but He does not actually love them while they are sinning. God cannot both hate sinners (which many Scriptures attest to including those quoted above), and love sinners at the same time. God's Word does not contradict. God's love for humanity before the cross resided in the fact that all will be brought to repentance due to His workmanship, and God sees things not only as they are, but as they WILL BE. It was what God saw that man would BE, in the future after repentance, that He loved.
If Paul wanted to tell us that God loves sinners while they are yet sinning, he would have simply said so, such as this: "God loved us while we were yet sinners." Or even more directly like this: "God LOVES SINNERS." But God only "commended" or "introduced" or "exhibited" that love ahead of time. Paul makes this simple to understand 16 verses previously where he states, "...God calls those things which be NOT as though they WERE" (Rom. 4:17). And since we are told at dozens of places in Scripture that God is the Saviour of all men, His love and sacrifice on the cross covers all sins, for all people, for all time.
"And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (I John 2:2)
and
"God our Saviour, Who will have all men [all sinners] to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the [/b]truth" (I Tim. 2:4)
lareli:
God hates sin and sinners. Ok there's enough scriptures on here to show that, but that's not something I'm disputing. I'm saying I, me personally do not hate sinners because that would make me (a sinner) a hypocrite. God can hate sinners and not be a hypocrite because He Himself is not a sinner.
Is there any scripture where we are commanded to hate sinners? I don't mean hate evil or hate sin but are we ever instructed to hate sinners? Because I know for sure we are commanded, not encouraged not advised, but commanded to love our neighbor as ourself. It's not an option or a suggestion. When Christ talks about those who profess to love Him yet don't do what He said to do isn't this what He's talking about? Love your neighbor as yourself.. He says that sums up the law and the prophets. 'Depart from me I never knew you' isn't this statement reserved for those hypocrites who don't love God and their neighbor as themselves?
Am I in the woods here?
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: largeli on April 14, 2014, 06:39:49 PM ---God hates sin and sinners. Ok there's enough scriptures on here to show that, but that's not something I'm disputing. I'm saying I, me personally do not hate sinners because that would make me (a sinner) a hypocrite. God can hate sinners and not be a hypocrite because He Himself is not a sinner.
Is there any scripture where we are commanded to hate sinners? I don't mean hate evil or hate sin but are we ever instructed to hate sinners? Because I know for sure we are commanded, not encouraged not advised, but commanded to love our neighbor as ourself. It's not an option or a suggestion. When Christ talks about those who profess to love Him yet don't do what He said to do isn't this what He's talking about? Love your neighbor as yourself.. He says that sums up the law and the prophets. 'Depart from me I never knew you' isn't this statement reserved for those hypocrites who don't love God and their neighbor as themselves?
Am I in the woods here?
--- End quote ---
Largeli,
Did you not read this study of Ray's that I previously attached? http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html
Greek has several words for love; English has one. You need to understand the differences to understand the meanings of this word "love" in Scriptures. Ray went into it in depth, which is why I did not want to repeat in detail.
The cliff notes version is that it's the Greek word agape used in "love your neighbor as yourself." It is the outgoing love demonstrated by God, which has the ultimate good of the person in mind. But it is not the warm brotherly type love that one would extend to a family member or close friend. Bottom line, Hitler will one day repent and be saved, but I don't have to love Hitler as a brother until such time in the future that he repents and is changed by God.
As to your 1st question: By the power of the Holy Spirit, I seek to become like God. Therefore, what He loves, I love; what He hates, I hate. I conform to His ways and will reject all others.
His kingdom is not of this world. Neither is mine. Which is why I don't vote or engage in politics. I will not join any military or bear arms or kill anyone. I don't own any weapon. I will not engage in false worship of God, but will worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Get the point?
Everything is about the True God and His ways. I reject everything else. That's just the way it is.
Not by might, not by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord God Almighty.
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